The Falkland Islands

[say1988]

Care to expand upon the circumstances, Dachs?

As for their position, they did provide bases in the Azores in 1982.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

What? I'm Portuguese and yes, we call those islands in Portuguese Malvinas (which I find somewhat confusing because it's very similar with the Maldives or Maldivas, even though they're nowhere even near each other on the map) but that's just linguistics, there's no political statement behind this.

And if we were ever required to state our opinion on the issue, I'm pretty sure we'd back the UK, not only because they're EU and NATO allies (which would be enough) but also because the English are our historical allies, they always helped us in defending our sovereignty against Castile/Spain and France and we always had their back (for example, we confiscated all German ships and declared war on Germany on WW1 just at their request even though we were on a really bad economical situation).

As for Brazil, they're free to do what they want, they'd probably vocally support Argentina just as to keep things down there between both of them nice and smooth, but it's not like they'd want to antagonize the British, they'd probably just do the same Portugal would do, say to his neighbor he thinks he's right and say he hopes things can be solved peacefully, and perhaps grab some popcorn to see them going at it if it ever comes to that again.

 

[uat2d]

Care to expand upon the circumstances, Dachs?

As for their position, they did provide bases in the Azores in 1982.

And much earlier than that, even in WW2, even though our government and its ideology much more resembled the ones from the Axis than the ones from the Allies.

I don't understand what you said, Dachs, the worst point of Portuguese-British relations was surely the Pink Map with the British Ultimatum, not in WW1.

 

[uat2d]

Argentina claims ownership of the islands, which it calls the Malvinas

Not only Argentina but the whole Spanish-speaking world plus Brasil and Portugal.

Proving you wrong.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Proving you lack basic understanding of the discussion we had. The issue was about who calls it Malvinas. Of course it is only Argentina who claims ownership, not the Spanish-speaking world plus Brasil and Portugal.

 

[say1988]

Which is entirely meaningless. Names can be radically different in different languages. It is common and accepted throughout the world (Germany is probably one of the most notable because of its neighbours calling it by four names with different roots from the one Germans use).

Not only was the article not wrong or misleading, but you are arguing about something that simply doesn't matter under any circumstance.

 

[Dachs]

Care to expand upon the circumstances, Dachs?

Portugal contributed basically nothing to the war effort and, in some places (the Flanders front, Africa) the Portuguese entry made things considerably worse for Britain. At the same time, the war involved effectively no profit for Portugal and a large amount of damage to Portugal's African colonies. You know, in another era - say, the Third Coalition - that sort of mutually destructive alliance would've soured relations for years.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Which is entirely meaningless. Names can be radically different in different languages. It is common and accepted throughout the world (Germany is probably one of the most notable because of its neighbours calling it by four names with different roots from the one Germans use).

Not only was the article not wrong or misleading, but you are arguing about something that simply doesn't matter under any circumstance.

As a lawyer i assure you that names are anything but meaningless.

 

[Traitorfish]

Not only was the article not wrong or misleading...

I'm not so sure. The phrasing heavily implied that this was some Argentine eccentricity, intractable from revanchist aspirations, rather than a neutral comment on language. It read as if they were saying "Argentina claims ownership of the moon, which it calls Space-Patagonia", not a passing comment on terminological disparity.

 

[innonimatu]

What are these backstabs you're talking about and could you leave some links so I can learn more about them?

Being portuguese you should know of at least two acts of outright american treachery against an ally, I'll drop just a couple of names: Holden Roberto and Botelho Moniz.

 

[Domen]

Kosovo is Serbia, Chechnya is Russia, Tibet is China, Lviv is Poland, Falklands are Britannia - basta! Right?

But honestly, just allow the people of Falklands to decide on their own.

PS: Lots of British and Argentinian nationalism in this thread.

 

[innonimatu]

And if we were ever required to state our opinion on the issue, I'm pretty sure we'd back the UK, not only because they're EU and NATO allies (which would be enough) but also because the English are our historical allies, they always helped us in defending our sovereignty against Castile/Spain and France and we always had their back (for example, we confiscated all German ships and declared war on Germany on WW1 just at their request even though we were on a really bad economical situation).

We'd probably back them because they happen to the the european pets of the empire that holds an hegemony over the Atlantic, and we always ally with that empire (It was the castilan first, then the british, finally the americans now). And I say probably because the position of the USA is not crystal clear in such an hypothetical conflict. I don't think they want to dismantle what's left of the former British Empire, they0're done with that, but one never knows.

Oh, and about british help against France, yes... except for the bits where the Royal Navy provided transportation to a french army out of Lisbon with all its loot, the bit where they hanged several portuguese officers who dared cross the british "governor-general" in Portugal, and the role they played in breaking apart the United Kingdom after 1821 (though, to be fair, the portuguese liberals would have done enough on their own).

 

[Domen]

The majority on the Falkland Islands consider themselves to be British and wish to remain so.

Really? Wikipedia article in section "nationalities" says:

"61% Falkland Islander
29% British
2.6% Spanish
0.6% Japanese
6.5% Chilean & Other"

Since when is 29% "majority" ???

 

[Traitorfish]

Really? Wikipedia article in section "nationalities" says:

"61% Falkland Islander
29% British
2.6% Spanish
0.6% Japanese
6.5% Chilean & Other"

Since when is 29% "majority" ???

You don't really know anything about how national identity works in Britain, do you?

 

[imperialman]

Really? Wikipedia article in section "nationalities" says:

"61% Falkland Islander
29% British
2.6% Spanish
0.6% Japanese
6.5% Chilean & Other"

Since when is 29% "majority" ???

I think he meant that most wished to remain British citizens.

 

[imperialman]

But honestly, just allow the people of Falklands to decide on their own.

In an Argentine-inspired poll in 1994, 87% of the island's population rejected any form of discussion of sovereignty under any circumstances.

*Damn servers and their being busy when I want to post!

 

[uat2d]

Proving you lack basic understanding of the discussion we had. The issue was about who calls it Malvinas. Of course it is only Argentina who claims ownership, not the Spanish-speaking world plus Brasil and Portugal.

If I lack basic understanding of this discussion, you surely lack a functional brain.

The issue of who calls it Malvinas is irrelevant to this discussion, you were implying that who called it what supported one or the other country which is just false, just as when we call Taiwan Formosa we aren't making any political statement at all about the PRC and the Republic of China, these names just stuck, and that doesn't mean crap about who owns or should own the island.

Now go back to wherever you came from and take your rude manners with you.

 

[innonimatu]

Portugal contributed basically nothing to the war effort and, in some places (the Flanders front, Africa) the Portuguese entry made things considerably worse for Britain. At the same time, the war involved effectively no profit for Portugal and a large amount of damage to Portugal's African colonies. You know, in another era - say, the Third Coalition - that sort of mutually destructive alliance would've soured relations for years.

Well, the british were the ones pressuring for cutting trade with Germany, knowing that would mean war. But seeing as the germans had been attacking already it was kind of ridiculous to pretend to remain neutral.

Anyway, the UK more than made up for that and the ultimatum thing during ww2, when it pressured Roosevelt to keep his greedy hands out of the Azores and kicked the australians out of East Timor on war's end (after having let Curtin and his government believe that his plans to annex it as an Australian colony would be allowed to proceed ).

 

[Thorgalaeg]

The issue of who calls it Malvinas is irrelevant to this discussion, you were implying that who called it what supported one or the other country which is just false...

Where did i implied all that? I did not, and i dont care who you support to say the truth. Again you continue lacking basic understanding of the discussion. Read my previous post again or Traitorfish´s one which explains it even better.

And dont know if i have a functional brain but i would recommend you to grow some skin if you consider that there were rude manners in my post. However it seems you are unable to discuss without insulting which says a lot...

 

[Dachs]

Well, the british were the ones pressuring for cutting trade with Germany, knowing that would mean war. But seeing as the germans had been attacking already it was kind of ridiculous to pretend to remain neutral.

So the solution to slight damage to the colonies and to national prestige was to incur even greater damage to the colonies and to national prestige?