The Gallic War

Well thats why i figured 2 tiles east (keep getting my east and west mixed up!, would give fresh water, we could move the stack into it and then we have a very good base to find KISS troops. we can always abandon it in the future we'd also have horses securly in our border and a second patch of iron.

then the next city could go on the ivory and the next one on the river tile the other side of the suger is it?
 
Furbomb should be rebuilt on the same spot where the ruins lie. The city position was fine before, and it will be fine in the future. Although we should wait until we kill off the rest of KISS's invasion force.
 
Found the Galls. They are on the iron hill in the east and they have a pikeman and a settler in the stack. Since it was safe to move the settler t the old Unabomb site I did that. Once I saw where the Galls were I decided to move the stack towards them. Swtiched away from the settler in Semtex so we could have another vet imomrtal. Will start another settler next turn so we can rebuild Horsebomb soon. The question is do we try to reduce the impending Gall city or rebuild Unabomb and Horsebomb, rush libraries and try to flip it? Regular immortals have a 23% chance of killing a fortified vet pikeman on a hill. Vet immortals have only a 35% chance while our elite immortal would have a 48% chance. That's why I switched over to a couple trebuchets in cities that do not have barracks.



Here's our stack:



EDIT: We are still strong vs. Iroqi, avg. vs. Greeks and weak vs. Galls.
 
we should try to kill the units and destroy the city, hoping for a culture flip is wishful thinking. we just need to build up a large force of several Immortals, Pikes, and anything else we can muster and storm the city before they can gain a foothold on our continent.
 
we should attempt to plant the city where i have been saying, more likely to get a culture flip, there is no point in even trying to attack that stack while its on the hill especially as we dont have many attacking units in our stack.
 
Donsig, can you post a screenshot of what units the galls have on that hill? Or am I allowed to go into the save and move the stack over a tile, for I can take a look at what units the galls have?

If I can take a look at that, I can post an estimation of what it might cost us to attack the galls there.
 
Actually, we have a very good chance of taking that city. There is only one pikeman on that tile, every other unit is a gallic swordsmen. If they settle the city on the hill, and fortify all of those units.. that will give all of their units a bonus of +125%. I'm not 100% sure how those defense bonus's actually add up. If they are bulked together into one bonus and then applied, that will give the Pikeman a defense of only 3.75. However, I believe that each bonus is applied seperately.. so doing the math:

Pikeman:
50% * 3 = 1.5 (50% for hill defense bonus)
25% * 3 = .75 (25% for fortifiction bonus)

3 + 1.5 + .75 = 5.25 defense bonus

Gallic Swordsman:
50% * 2 = 1 (hill defense)
25% * 2 = .5 (fortify bonus)

2 + 1 + .5 = 3.5 defense bonus

There is 1 pikeman and 7 gallic swordsman (counting the two that are NOT on the hill). So doing some more calculations

6.75 * 1 = 5.25
3.5 * 7 = 24.5

5.25 + 24.5 = 29.75

29.75/4 = 7.43 (rounding to 7 for simplicity).

So, a good estimation for taking the city is around 7 immortals. Of course, this assumes that all units are on an equal footing hit point wise. The galls do not have a single regular unit in their entire army. Three of the gallic swordsmen are elites. We have 6 immortals in our current army, 2 of which are veterns and one is elite.

Our immortals (against the pikeman) are always at a negative, thus if we use one of the regular immortals on a "suicide run" to just knock the Pikemans hp down some, we can focus on hitting some of the gallic swordsman. Our vet immortals have a 57% chance of killing a vetern gallic swordsman and a 44% chance of killing an elite gallic swordsman. Our elite immortal has a 71% chance of killing a vet gallic swordsman and a 58% chance of killing an elite gallic swordsman. Our regulars have a 41% chance of killing an vetern gallic swordsman and a 29% chance of killing a elite swordsman.

I propose we throw a suicider at the pikeman, just to knock his hp down and make the gallic swordsman defend. We try to save our elite immortal for as long as possible though, because even if we manage to knock the pikeman down one hp.. our elite immortal then has a 65% chance of defeating him. We then throw our remaining regular immortals against the elite swordsman. Not in any chance of winning, but just to get them out of the way. Once possible, we try to hit the vetern swordsmen with our vetern immortals. Hopefully one or two of our immortals will be promoted to elite.

If we switch to immortals in Dancing Banana, Semtax, Grenadeoplis, and Dynopolis and rush the two in Grenadeopolis and Dancing banana (for 108 gold) we can get two more veterns and two more regular immortals on the way. Bringing our total troop number to 10 immortals, 1 elite, 4 vet, and 5 regular. If we use the regular immortals as suicides just to knock down the elite gallic swordsman and pikeman hp.. our vetern and elite immortals can pick them off pretty easily.

Another idea (that I'm kind of leaning to), is building 4 trebuchet instead of four immortals in the city above. We have 5 pikeman in that stack, there is no possible way they can hope to even strike at our immortals, much less the trebuchet. There is no need to rush to the city and attack immediantly. We can rush four trebuchet and use them to bombard the city, picking off units when possible. Meanwhile, we rush 4-5 additional immortals to use as a strike force. We could also try to knock the pikeman out using a the trebuchet, then use our elite immortal to attack an elite gallic swordsman (58% chance in our favor). Hopefully picking off one elite gallic swordsman before the main battle even starts.

We can even keep that up for several turns (or untill our elite immortal dies). Attack an elite with our elite, move back and heal him up... and repeat. The only problem with taking our time, is that they might rush walls in the city. Which, in all honesty, isn't much of a threat. We can just build more trebuchet and weaken the units even more before we strike. What the threat of walls is that it means that we will have to take longer to capture the city, allowing the galls the possibility of sending in reinforcements.

--------------------

This will be the perfect oppertunity to force K.I.S.S. off of our continenet.. and to strike a devasting blow to their army. We destroy 7 gallic swordsmen, 1 pikeman, and we capture a trebuchet. We also destroy a settler (or maybe capture a city). I prefer using the trebuchet method of attacking the city, take our time and try to minimize our casualities, while we maximize theirs. Maybe even get the city up to size 2 and capture it.

In the end, we have to destroy/capture this city. We will not beable to flip it, as we have no culture in that area and I'm almsot certain that their just going to rush a library. We would need culture on a level only Dancing Banana and Semtax is capable of. Flipping the city is not an option.
 
Strider said:
Actually, we have a very good chance of taking that city. There is only one pikeman on that tile, every other unit is a gallic swordsmen. If they settle the city on the hill, and fortify all of those units.. that will give all of their units a bonus of +125%. I'm not 100% sure how those defense bonus's actually add up. If they are bulked together into one bonus and then applied, that will give the Pikeman a defense of only 3.75. However, I believe that each bonus is applied seperately.. so doing the math:

Pikeman:
50% * 3 = 1.5 (50% for hill defense bonus)
25% * 3 = .75 (25% for fortifiction bonus)

3 + 1.5 + .75 = 5.25 defense bonus

Gallic Swordsman:
50% * 2 = 1 (hill defense)
25% * 2 = .5 (fortify bonus)

2 + 1 + .5 = 3.5 defense bonus

There is 1 pikeman and 7 gallic swordsman (counting the two that are NOT on the hill). So doing some more calculations

6.75 * 1 = 5.25
3.5 * 7 = 24.5

5.25 + 24.5 = 29.75

29.75/4 = 7.43 (rounding to 7 for simplicity).

So, a good estimation for taking the city is around 7 immortals. Of course, this assumes that all units are on an equal footing hit point wise. The galls do not have a single regular unit in their entire army. Three of the gallic swordsmen are elites. We have 6 immortals in our current army, 2 of which are veterns and one is elite.

Our immortals (against the pikeman) are always at a negative, thus if we use one of the regular immortals on a "suicide run" to just knock the Pikemans hp down some, we can focus on hitting some of the gallic swordsman. Our vet immortals have a 57% chance of killing a vetern gallic swordsman and a 44% chance of killing an elite gallic swordsman. Our elite immortal has a 71% chance of killing a vet gallic swordsman and a 58% chance of killing an elite gallic swordsman. Our regulars have a 41% chance of killing an vetern gallic swordsman and a 29% chance of killing a elite swordsman.

I propose we throw a suicider at the pikeman, just to knock his hp down and make the gallic swordsman defend. We try to save our elite immortal for as long as possible though, because even if we manage to knock the pikeman down one hp.. our elite immortal then has a 65% chance of defeating him. We then throw our remaining regular immortals against the elite swordsman. Not in any chance of winning, but just to get them out of the way. Once possible, we try to hit the vetern swordsmen with our vetern immortals. Hopefully one or two of our immortals will be promoted to elite.

If we switch to immortals in Dancing Banana, Semtax, Grenadeoplis, and Dynopolis and rush the two in Grenadeopolis and Dancing banana (for 108 gold) we can get two more veterns and two more regular immortals on the way. Bringing our total troop number to 10 immortals, 1 elite, 4 vet, and 5 regular. If we use the regular immortals as suicides just to knock down the elite gallic swordsman and pikeman hp.. our vetern and elite immortals can pick them off pretty easily.

Another idea (that I'm kind of leaning to), is building 4 trebuchet instead of four immortals in the city above. We have 5 pikeman in that stack, there is no possible way they can hope to even strike at our immortals, much less the trebuchet. There is no need to rush to the city and attack immediantly. We can rush four trebuchet and use them to bombard the city, picking off units when possible. Meanwhile, we rush 4-5 additional immortals to use as a strike force. We could also try to knock the pikeman out using a the trebuchet, then use our elite immortal to attack an elite gallic swordsman (58% chance in our favor). Hopefully picking off one elite gallic swordsman before the main battle even starts.

We can even keep that up for several turns (or untill our elite immortal dies). Attack an elite with our elite, move back and heal him up... and repeat. The only problem with taking our time, is that they might rush walls in the city. Which, in all honesty, isn't much of a threat. We can just build more trebuchet and weaken the units even more before we strike. What the threat of walls is that it means that we will have to take longer to capture the city, allowing the galls the possibility of sending in reinforcements.

--------------------

This will be the perfect oppertunity to force K.I.S.S. off of our continenet.. and to strike a devasting blow to their army. We destroy 7 gallic swordsmen, 1 pikeman, and we capture a trebuchet. We also destroy a settler (or maybe capture a city). I prefer using the trebuchet method of attacking the city, take our time and try to minimize our casualities, while we maximize theirs. Maybe even get the city up to size 2 and capture it.

In the end, we have to destroy/capture this city. We will not beable to flip it, as we have no culture in that area and I'm almsot certain that their just going to rush a library. We would need culture on a level only Dancing Banana and Semtax is capable of. Flipping the city is not an option.
I would have just created the scenario in the editor and playtest this with random seed off. Based on that result I would have made a decision.

But I'm just a simple lurker.
 
Rik Meleet said:
I would have just created the scenario in the editor and playtest this with random seed off. Based on that result I would have made a decision.

But I'm just a simple lurker.

I actually did run two tests in the editor. Used 10 immortals in each test. First test 5 immortals were lost (I DID heal them and used the healed immortals over again). The second test 8 were lost.

In all honesty, I just wanted to give an average of how many we can expect to lose. All a test in the editor did is prove what we already know, it's completely random.
 
I agree with Strider's plan, as I can think a culture flip is wishful thinking and building 4 trebs will really increase our chances of victory. We should aim at attacking their stack/city within the next 5 turns. We need to amass a good deal of troops, but we should try to attack them before they build walls.
 
Well, we'll have two trebuchets next turn and we can start on more. I suggest we build immortals and pikes in :banana: and Dynopolis and trebuchets in other cities that do not have barracks. We may have to rush one or two down the road. We are currently working on libraries in our western core cities and should let them complete before switching back to military production.

Is there any way we can stop the Galls from reinforcing the new city?
 
well we could surround the city, or place units along the coast, that way we'll know if they land anything else.
 
Kept our pikes where they were and built a road on that tile. Moved our immortals away so the Galls can't see them. We have a new pike and two new trebuchets. Switched FI from library to trebuchet and rushed it for 36g. Dynopolis and Dancing Banana are working on immortals. Semtex and Carpetbomb are building trebuchets. Grenadoplis switched to settler since it can't grow past size six without an aqueduct. Switched a couple outlying cities over to workers. We'll have two neew libraries in three turns. Hope to restart researching within ten turns.

Here is the tactical situation:

 
Strider (and anyone else who cares to comment): Have you considered the risk we take by placing our stack next to their city for a prolonged attack? They had three elite GSs in that stack and if they are still in the city then we'd be giving them a chance to attack with the elites and possibly get a leader. Now that they have a city over here they could turn a leader into an army without shipping it back to their continent. If they get an army and fill it with GSs then the army would have three movement points!
 
donsig said:
Strider (and anyone else who cares to comment): Have you considered the risk we take by placing our stack next to their city for a prolonged attack? They had three elite GSs in that stack and if they are still in the city then we'd be giving them a chance to attack with the elites and possibly get a leader. Now that they have a city over here they could turn a leader into an army without shipping it back to their continent. If they get an army and fill it with GSs then the army would have three movement points!

An elite gallic swordsman only has a 43% chance of winning against one of our fortified pikes. They only have 3 elites, and if one of them dies against our pikemen.. that is still only 1/16 chance of getting a leader. If they keep resting and attacking, then that will only give them about a 6/96 chance of getting a leader.

Not the best of odds.
 
also if the swordsman attacked our stack and won the elite would be left out in the open allowing our immortal to come along and attack them. So i think we should leave our stack where it is for the time being. Move it in when we've got 5 trebuchets or so with our immortal stack, no need for KISS to know were building up a store of them.

Tubby was asking where our immortals went today as well, so there a little curious/worried
 
Leave our defense stack in place for the time being. We could kill any victorious Gallics in the future, and we can quickly send reinforcements to defend the tile if they somehow thin the stack.
 
Left the pikes in place but moved the workers north of Unabomb so they can chop the forest next turn. This will speed the construction of the library - we need Unabomb's borders to expand as soon as possible. Left the immortals where they were as well and moved all other immortals and the trebuchets (we have three) towards the immortal stacks. No new Gall units in sight but they now have a second city in place on the coast. This will surely allow them to reinforce their position over here much easier since they can sail right into the city and unload. So we must decide if we want to attack Spite or Malice first.



Here's the military advisor screen:

 
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