The Georgaphy of Europe

[Dachs]

Russians have been into the "Asiatic" thing, it just depends on when you catch them.

There was a whole ideology built around it in the late nineteenth century. It died at Mukden and Tsushima, shot to pieces by Japanese artillery, but the pull on the imagination was pretty powerful nonetheless, while it was still around. Explorers penetrated into the steppe, and Russians tried to be the first outsiders to meet with the Dalai Lama (a sort of Race to the Pole of its kind), employing ties with Buryat Buddhists. These exploits were popularized in the Petersburg press, and in best-selling books - not an elite affectation. The Asiatic ideology certainly conditioned Russian foreign policy for decades. Russian writers of the times talked about how there was a fundamental disconnect between Russians and the European peoples, courtesy of their 'tutelage' under the Mongols; Russia was tied into the life of the steppe better than any power, arguably even better than the Manjus themselves. There's a lot of truth to that, too, and a lot of useful history has been done viewing Muscovy-Russia as one of many competing Mongol powers, both by nineteenth-century Russian Asiatic enthusiasts and by more modern academic historians like Peter Perdue.

woo subjectivity

 

[Traitorfish]

The entire Russo-Byzantine Revival movement was basically the swing towards an "Asiatic" self-perception manifested in the form of gargantuan stone edifices. They took that pretty seriously for a good while.

Edit: Wait, we already went over this like six pages back. D'oh.

 

[Veles]

You mean the Slavophile movement? This is where the Russian Revival in architechture takes its roots. It was a rejection of Western ways, yes, but it certainly wasn't a swing towards Asia, fo sho. Rather a manifestation that Russia has it's own unique way. But

That's why those pics were posted, to see whether people would find that architechture, subjectively, more Asiatic or European.

 

[Traitorfish]

Fair point, I'm probably over-stressing that a little. All I can is that the distinction between being uniquely Russian and being Asiatic was always a big blurry, hence the fondness, in that style, for Central Asian-derived onion domes and ogee arches as a characteristic indicator of Russian-ness, a feature which I understand was generally recognised by educated Russians (if not by Western Europeans) to be an inheritance from the days of the Mongols.

(Noting that these features also appeared in various baroque Central and Western European buildings as part of (or influenced by) various Orientalist fads, but without the same idealogical overtones as in Eastern Europe.)

 

[Veles]

Russians have been into the "Asiatic" thing, it just depends on when you catch them.

There was a whole ideology built around it in the late nineteenth century. It died at Mukden and Tsushima, shot to pieces by Japanese artillery, but the pull on the imagination was pretty powerful nonetheless, while it was still around. Explorers penetrated into the steppe, and Russians tried to be the first outsiders to meet with the Dalai Lama (a sort of Race to the Pole of its kind), employing ties with Buryat Buddhists. These exploits were popularized in the Petersburg press, and in best-selling books - not an elite affectation. The Asiatic ideology certainly conditioned Russian foreign policy for decades. Russian writers of the times talked about how there was a fundamental disconnect between Russians and the European peoples, courtesy of their 'tutelage' under the Mongols; Russia was tied into the life of the steppe better than any power, arguably even better than the Manjus themselves. There's a lot of truth to that, too, and a lot of useful history has been done viewing Muscovy-Russia as one of many competing Mongol powers, both by nineteenth-century Russian Asiatic enthusiasts and by more modern academic historians like Peter Perdue.

There's been a lot of intellectual wankery going on in 19 century Russia, concerning its origin, place and role in the world and how it should develop. While there were several major "schools", like Slavophiles or Zapadniks, the theory you're mentioning was never really popular among the folk. Frankly, thinking according to it would seem outright blasphemous for a commoner God-fearing peasant, even in steppic region, like Voronezh.

...Russian writers of the times talked about how there was a fundamental disconnect between Russians and the European peoples, courtesy of their 'tutelage' under the Mongols...

Now this was a very popular notion. "Scratch a Russian - find a tatar" the saying went.
The recent studies however showed that Russians are > 50% R1a just like Poles or Ukrainians and have close to none "Mongolic" or "Turkic" haplogroups (and let us refrain from discussing the method itself, 'cause it's a huge separate issue). We however have a slightly bigger deal of "Finnic" haplogroups.
So it's more like "Scratch a Russian - get punched".

...Russia was tied into the life of the steppe better than any power, arguably even better than the Manjus themselves...

Because the Slavs were pretty much the first people to actually settle the steppe, rather than just herd horses and sheep there. They planted forests and had very successfull agriculture on those lands previousely barren for centuries, the "Scythian desert". But in no way have they adopted steppic lifestyle, quite the contrary - all that huge mass of nomadic peoples were "encouraged" to hold a Russian lifestyle.

And the fact that you already know all that, makes typing it all out a lot less fun.

You seem to always start sentence with two spaces. Why is that? Is that a secret way of demoralizing the opponent?

 

[Veles]

...Why give up the special "not Asian but not European either" status?

So, we better make up a new continent then - "Russia"? Hmm, that's good too.

 

[Tani Coyote]

So, we better make up a new continent then - "Russia"? Hmm, that's good too.

Feel free; America has two continents to its name, after all.

---

Though really, any Russian continent would be arbitrary. I'd think Russia likes being on both continents; it lets it craft an identity that is neither European nor Asian for itself, given its huge investments in both continents.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I do not wish to derail this thread as this is a bit esoteric information as well but it is known that at each time/era of history there has been some important power/civilisation leading the world. In past it was India, Egypt, Greece/Rome(Helenic), presently its the anglosaxon(England,Germany, USA). Guess who is next? Right. Russia(Slavic) will have the lead...

 

[Ekolite]

Germany is not anglo-saxon. Anglo-saxon is the UK and its white, english speaking derivitives. (And Ireland, although they would probably call themselves celtic instead)

 

[sophie]

I do not wish to derail this thread as this is a bit esoteric information as well but it is known that at each time/era of history there has been some important power/civilisation leading the world. In past it was India, Egypt, Greece/Rome(Helenic), presently its the anglosaxon(England,Germany, USA). Guess who is next? Right. Russia(Slavic) will have the lead...

Haha, keep going! I'm seeing potential lulz out on the horizon!

 

[holy king]

at what point in their history where egypt, india, greece and rome more than a regional power?

 

[Traitorfish]

I do not wish to derail this thread as this is a bit esoteric information as well but it is known that at each time/era of history there has been some important power/civilisation leading the world. In past it was India, Egypt, Greece/Rome(Helenic), presently its the anglosaxon(England,Germany, USA). Guess who is next? Right. Russia(Slavic) will have the lead...

Ha ha, what?