betazed said:
Ok, I see what you are saying right now.
But aren't you taking an very dim view of humanity? I am a pessimist, but even I cannot neglect the tons of progress that we have done in the centuries that we have passed. We made all that progress without anyone babysitting us. So why do you think we will stop all progress now? True, there are problems today; but these are problems that we would rather have. These are problems of growth and prosperity. (It can be argued that we may have one or two very nasty problems that can set us back centuries, but what the heck is a couple of centuries in the history of mankind which already spans 15,000 years as far as we know and probably more).
As you pointed out sometime before once you focus your vision to a broad enough perspective (and permanently fix it at that) these current problem are just local and transient fluctuations on an overall monotonically increasing prosperity curve!
Change your focus and keep it stuck there!
I know what youre saying and agree. The human condition has improved tremendously. Like the old Virginia Slims ad used to say 'Youve come a long way, baby'
But, and this is a big but, we've now entered a unique period that we've never seen before (as far as we know). Before, mismanagement only affected people locally. One society could be mismanaging itself into the dustbin of history, but over the next chain of mountains there could be a completely different, thriving, successful society that was in no way affected by what was happening to its 'distant' neighbor. The world isnt like that anymore, now, not only do decisions taken in one corner of the globe impact people around the world and back again, now the very planet itself, and the as yet unborn generations of humanity are at the mercy of what we do, or dont do today. The old ways that brought us this far cant be expected to carry us through this period in our history, because this period is unlike all others. The world needs to be managed. We no longer have the luxury of leaving problems for future generations, because if somebody doesnt take charge soon and begin doing what needs to be done to solve those problems today, there wont be any future generations.
El_Machinae said:
How would the farmer, and you, feel if one plant in the second field finally outcompeted its neighbours for light, and thus could grow?
As it grew, it laced the soils around it with a poison, and expanded its leaves to block off the sunlight reaching the ground.
It flung its seeds, using the wind. Wherever the seeds landed they produced a plant that poisoned the soil, allowing it to grow to a point where it could hog all the light.
Soon, the field is a pine forest, with nothing but needle and maybe a little bit of moss on the ground, and a towering canopy where only the tops of the trees have any green, as each pine competes with its offspring/brothers/neighbours for light, and stiffled all other growth in the forest.
I know youre thinking about evolution, but what sprang to mind when reading your post was the creation of poisonous, destructive ideologies and cultures, which often spring from chaos, and spread disorder to their neighbors. This is why the increasing number of failed or failing states are such destabilizing factors. Neglected 'farms' cant be ignored.
Somebody has to have the cojones to go in and do the dirty work.
Birdjaguar said:
After listening to Mr. Farmer by The Seeds a few times, I think you are looking at the problem wrong. We perceive the world as an unruly garden because we don't get what we want. We imagine that it could be more orderly and perhaps provide better for us. Our egos distort the beauty to be found if we were not so self centered.
Like Clinton used to say, while annoyingly biting his lower lip and pointing with his thumb: 'We can do better'. Will this world ever be a paradise on Earth? Never. However, can the worlds people and resources be managed in a more intelligent way, ensuring a high quality of life for future generations, not just us, today? Yes. As betazed pointed out, we've made alot of progress. All Im trying to point out is that IMO, that progress will stall and perhaps begin to unravel and reverse, if new ways of thinking arent developed, quickly. For instance, we need to start taking into account the rights of future generations, not just our own. John Q Public has a right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, only so long as his bliss doesnt come at the cost of destroying the future. Just like families sacrifice in the present for the benfit of their children and grandchildren, so also the human family needs to start doing the same.
VRWCAgent said:
Go visit a local church, you might find that we have one.
God isnt a hands on type of manager. He's allowed us to manage our own affairs. If we sink or swim, it'll be through our own efforts, or lack of them.
sanabas said:
That's corn, not wheat.
As for the OP, what's the goal of a farmer? Provide the best life possible from the wheat's perspective, or to constrain the wheat, and interfere with the wheat, in order to have the wheat turn out the way that is most advantageous to the farmer?
The orderly one is the better farmer, but which is the better wheat?
Well, the wheat in the well managed farm is healthier and more productive than in the neglected farm.
Or is there one after all? (looks heavenward, is bathed in light, but its just a police helicopter)
