The Great CFC Low Income Food Experiment Challenge!

[Patroklos]

Greetings fellow CFCers!

This is an experiment/challenge to sustain a healthy diet over the course of a week on only $20.00.

I will be doing this by my lonesome if nobody wants to do it with me, but I invite and encourage some of you to join. If not join, at least provide your input to keep me honest!

Backround:

So there have been a few threads over the years about how healthy food is too expensive/not available for/to low income families and that the this is the major driver of America's and more acutely the poor's obesity epidemic as well as well as a major contributor the crippling healthcare costs in the US.

Most recently this has come up in this thead THIS THREAD

Each time this has happened it has been proven incorrect, but I have often promised to recreate an experiment here to settle this once and for all. Unfortunately due to being on sea duty I have not been able to do so as I have no control over my diet, but I transfer next week and thus intend to full fill my promise.

GOALS:

1.) To prove that it is not only possible, but also relatively easy, to eat healthy on a very meager food budget.
2.) To show this can be done without resorting to soylent green type measures, or more seriously in a appetizing and enjoyable way.
3.) To prove fresh produce and meat can be included in such a diet.
4.) To show cooking healthy is not time prohibitive.
5.) To learn how to save money on food and hopefully demonstrate to anyone following that poor or not we waste a lot of money on our groceries that can be avoided with just a smidgeon of time and effort, and that our laziness in this area is what is leading to unhealthy diets for everyone.

BONUS

6.) To include a happy hour in my 20.00 budget, food and drink. This is not to be assessed to the success of the experiment, its just a fun bonus if I can make it happen. In real life if a lower income family could do this (which I will show they can) I'd say buy more vegetables or save!

RULES:

1.) The duration will be one week, starting at 0001 on the 7th and end ending at 0001 on the 14th of January.

2.) Participants are limited to $20.00 for all food stuffs that are purchased for consumption for that week.

3.) It is preferred that already stocked material won't be used, but we are all real people so if you need to report this and provide a current price to reference that may be challenged.

4.) If you buy in bulk (such as a bag of rice) you do not have to include the entire purchase price in your $20.00, just what you use that week. What is considered bulk can be challenged.

5.) Condiments/spices are not included in the $20.00 as it is assumed the average American, poor or not, has a fridge and pantry full of them. You must report them, however, and include them in nutrition calculations. Butter and oil ARE NOT condiments and are always to be included in money calculations.

6.) Beverages of all types are included. Tap water is to be considered no cost.

7.) Attempt to use a single grocery store that has verifiable prices online to the greatest degree possible. While this experiment is not designed to control anything but a simple cost demonstration, low income shoppers generally can't afford to blanket the state looking for deals.

8.) You must post your receipts in this thread for all purchases (or transcribe them) for review and challenge.

9.) Coupons and in store deals (discount cards) are allowed and encourages as long as you didn't have to pay for them. So no Sam's Club, but the Harris Teeter VIC card is okay for example.

10a.) The idea is not to prevent starvation, but to provide a healthy and nutritious diet at a minimum cost. To this end the following two sources will be utilized and the success of the experiment will be judged not only on remaining within budget but how close you can remain to these parameters of both serving size and nutritional value:

DAILY SERVINGS VALUES (This one is a AMA site so ignore things like "lean meats" and read as "meats." We are going to account for nutrition anyway, so just use class and serving size)
NUTRITION VALUES

These will be summarized in an later post to ease reference
10b.) It is recognized by the rules at the outset that food doesn't come in laboratory precision allotments so exact adherence to the above references is impossible. If you are above or under by 100 calories for the day that is not a failure, that's just a demonstration of normal life. Being off 2% on carbohydrates is not demonstrating an unhealthy lifestyle. Discussion during the experiment concerning these deviations is encouraged.
11.) Participants are to describe the preparation of their daily food intake so that cooking style (frying for instance) can be factored into calculations.
12.) If you think the cost of living where you are varies drastically from where I am feel free to use THIS SITE to apply an adjustment.
13.) There are no restrictions on eating out at restaurants and the like, its just included in the calculations.
14.) To make things simple try to include your daily reports in a single post.

NOTES:

- I have never done this via message board before, so if you note any problems with the above rules or their application feel free to bring them up and I will change them. There is a week until the start date, so plenty of time to get things right.

- This experiment DOES NOT control for many variables. The simple fact is I am not poor, so I can not replicate all the unique variables that go with that whether helpful or detrimental to my states goals. I also know that I am only doing this for a week and am free to hit up a top tier steakhouse for dinner on the 14th, this can't be helped but I hope the food preparations I use will help to mitigate this issue. I am not controlling for the psychological effects of being low income, all I can do is recognize this and move on. This is primarily to show that access and cost are not the barriers.

- I am a single male (engaged, but she isn't participating), most poor people are not single mails. The reality is, however, it is more expensive to feed one person than it is a family of four on a per person basis. I don't have a way to control for this, but since this fact works against my stated goals if I am successful I will call that variable addressed.

- I will be preparing all this food myself. I recommend any other participants do to so as well as to, however imperfectly, simulate the time needed to cook healthy food.

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So, that's my experiment. Like I said it will kick off on the 7th. For reference I will be using the Harris Teeter on Colonial Avenue, Norfolk VA for all my shopping. Their prices are available online for the most part.

 

[Camikaze]

Sounds interesting. Good luck!

What is the general cost of living like in Norfolk compared to elsewhere in the US? That is, what would you normally spend on food for a week?

Point 4 - buying in bulk assumes you have liquidity, and aren't living from paycheck to paycheck. Wouldn't it be better for the purposes of the experiment to strictly limit yourself, rather than allowing for such extravagances as bulk buying?

Point 5 - is that really a safe assumption, if you're seeking to emulate living on such a restricted budget?

Point 6 - should the cost of necessary utilities be taken into account?

I'd be tempted to participate, but I don't do the groceries/cooking in my household, and get partially paid in food. I'm fairly sure $20 would be entirely insufficient, though.

 

[Patroklos]

Sounds interesting. Good luck!

It serves a double purpose, I need to lose some pounds before my wedding this summer so I will be aiming closer to the 1600 level on the calorie range!

What is the general cost of living like in Norfolk compared to elsewhere in the US? That is, what would you normally spend on food for a week?

The site I linked compares most major cities in the world, with NYC as the reference at 100. Norfolk VA is not on it so I am using Richmond, which actually has groceries being more expensive at 114.96.

I really couldn't tell you right now because I am underway so much I generally can't buy groceries, its been three years since I had a regular schedule. I buy food to make a single meal, at a huge financial loss (part of the purpose of this experiment for all those single guys on this board).

Hopefully I can change that now that I will be on shore duty.

Point 4 - buying in bulk assumes you have liquidity, and aren't living from paycheck to paycheck. Wouldn't it be better for the purposes of the experiment to strictly limit yourself, rather than allowing for such extravagances as bulk buying?

If we were talking about hundreds of dollars I'd be with you, but I can't think of anything that can't be bought in bulk with just a bit of planning. I am not talking about stocking your freezer with steak, but rather buying a large bag of rice. A large bag of rice costs about $1 a pound, and a 10lb bag is about 60 servings or in other words almost two weeks of all your carb servings.

Spending a little time planning is part of the experiment. People these days buy groceries like the buy fast food, on impulse, and that needs to change.

Point 5 - is that really a safe assumption, if you're seeking to emulate living on such a restricted budget?

Its one of the caricatures of the poor, a refrigerator full of condiments but no food. But like I said they can be challenged if you think it isn't normal enough.

Point 6 - should the cost of necessary utilities be taken into account?

Not in this experiment. As far as I know most of the poor in the US have electricity so that concerns a part of their overall budget separate from food costs.

I'd be tempted to participate, but I don't do the groceries/cooking in my household, and get partially paid in food. I'm fairly sure $20 would be entirely insufficient, though.

We shall see. I should point out I am relying heavily on in store deals, something I watch every shopper at the grocery store largely ignore. Brand selection helps a lot.

Honestly even if I don't hit the $20 mark but rather $25 or $30 I would consider that a moral success. Most of the poor spend FAR more than that a week on food per person, especially when you factor in the savings of multiple person households.

 

[Zelig]

I'm not back home from holidays until the 9th, so I might hop in and do the week after you.

I generally don't buy meat, so I'll be doing mine meat-free.

Rules 3&4 - these go hand-in-hand for me - most of my Calories are from oils and bulk dry goods - I could easily go a week without buying any food by eating what I currently have stocked. I'd consider my oils to be bulk along with my dry goods. (I buy bags of lentils/oats/cornmeal/wheat germ/beans and empty them into plastic bins.)

Rules 7&8 - I don't think any grocery stores in my area have online prices, I'll just take photos of my receipt, or in-store prices for bulk goods.

I'll be using a Co-op grocery in Calgary, your link puts the grocery index at 123.

FWIW, my regular budget is roughly $100/week on food, since I'm not poor and I like pine nuts and avocado oil. I suspect halving it to $50 would be fairly easy, $20 will probably be more challenging. (I'll have to abandon my regular breakfast; rice beverage + greek yogurt + muesli comes to $15 on its own, I'll also have to abandon $5 loaves of bread.)

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Rules 7&8 - I don't think any grocery stores in my area have online prices, I'll just take photos of my receipt, or in-store prices for bulk goods.

I'll be using a Co-op grocery in Calgary, your link puts the grocery index at 123.

Doesn't your Co-op post its weekly flyers online? Mine does.

My participation in this would be skewed by the cats. They come first, and although I can't afford top of the line stuff and Maddy is allergic to some kinds, I won't feed them garbage, either. And the only table scraps they get is cheese and yogurt (Maddy likes a little bite of cheese now and then and Chloe insists on sharing my daily yogurt).

I haven't used butter or margarine in so many years, I can't remember how long. I've discovered that you really don't need them to make a sandwich.

Your Co-op must be really upscale. I don't remember seeing any $5 loaves of bread at mine.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

I'm gonna come straight out and say this is unachievable. I hope I'm wrong and wish all contestants the best.

 

[Janig]

Do you seriously expect anyone to read that full post? thats the biggest challenge. A $20 food budget is easy, try the donut diet.

Donuts £7
Multivitamins 20p
Wine £4.80

Ideally you'd want more money for wine, meat, fruit, veg and custard; but youre obviously not doing it for fun and the core is there.

 

[Patroklos]

Rules 3&4 - these go hand-in-hand for me - most of my Calories are from oils and bulk dry goods - I could easily go a week without buying any food by eating what I currently have stocked. I'd consider my oils to be bulk along with my dry goods. (I buy bags of lentils/oats/cornmeal/wheat germ/beans and empty them into plastic bins.)

That's cool, just calculate out the cost fo the amount you use. I didn't want to factor out butter and oil like I did with condiments and spices because those two things are the crutch of the poor when it comes to cooking so I wanted to capture it.

My participation in this would be skewed by the cats. They come first, and although I can't afford top of the line stuff and Maddy is allergic to some kinds, I won't feed them garbage, either. And the only table scraps they get is cheese and yogurt (Maddy likes a little bite of cheese now and then and Chloe insists on sharing my daily yogurt).

If you want you can just subtract the amount you use from your cat from you bill. We are posting our receipts so there would be transparency.

I haven't used butter or margarine in so many years, I can't remember how long. I've discovered that you really don't need them to make a sandwich.

Is butter a common thing on sandwiches where you are from?

Do you seriously expect anyone to read that full post? thats the biggest challenge. A $20 food budget is easy, try the donut diet.

Donuts £7
Multivitamins 20p
Wine £4.80

Ideally you'd want more money for wine, meat, fruit, veg and custard; but youre obviously not doing it for fun and the core is there.

1.) Most of it concerns rules, so you don't have to read all of it if you aren't participating!

2.) Its not about just calories or filling your belly, we are attempting to hit nutrition standards the best we can which requires servings from specific food groups.

 

[dutchfire]

Nice thread! I'll certainly be looking at what you can come up with. I'd like to join, but I eat lunch (which is a full meal here) at work 5 days a week, and at ~€3 a time, that already puts me at €15. And then I don't like the regular German bread, so I buy fresh bread rolls every day, which are also expensive. I'll give it a non-competitive shot, it'll be useful for myself to figure out how much I spend and where I can improve.

I'm in Hamburg, Germany, which is at 100.37. I buy at Rewe (and sometimes at Edeka).

edit: Like Zelig, I usually cook meat-free, but my lunches will have meat.

 

[Azale]

I'll be up for this, but not for another 8 or 9 months probably If I can't pull it off in Texas of all places though then it can not be done.

 

[holy king]

i did this when i had to. thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

It's too much for me too, but I'll follow this with interest.

One thing to add, if more people join, might be a Big Mac reference price, or similar. 20$ probably differs a lot from place to place.

 

[Zelig]

Doesn't your Co-op post its weekly flyers online? Mine does.

My participation in this would be skewed by the cats. They come first, and although I can't afford top of the line stuff and Maddy is allergic to some kinds, I won't feed them garbage, either. And the only table scraps they get is cheese and yogurt (Maddy likes a little bite of cheese now and then and Chloe insists on sharing my daily yogurt).

I haven't used butter or margarine in so many years, I can't remember how long. I've discovered that you really don't need them to make a sandwich.

Your Co-op must be really upscale. I don't remember seeing any $5 loaves of bread at mine.

Yeah, it posts weekly flyers, but for $20, the only things from flyers I'll be able to afford are already cheap vegetables which are further on sale.

I'm pretty sure you could exclude purchases for your pets if you wanted to participate in this, Pat is excluding his fiance, so I don't see why you'd need to include cats.

I don't use butter or oil for sandwiches, but for cooking.

This is my normal bread: http://www.silverhillsbakery.ca/products/bread

 

[Silurian]

Good idea

but

It serves a double purpose, I need to lose some pounds before my wedding this summer so I will be aiming closer to the 1600 level on the calorie range!

If you are intending to live on 1600, rather than 2500 calories, that will allow you to save money. At this time of year it is cold in most parts of the northern hemisphere, 4C in Norfolk VA today. Poor people often cannot heat their homes adequately and so eat more calories too keep warm. When I was working in Bahrain, up to 47C, I found that I ate a lot less than I do in the UK due to the heat. You should really start your diet on the 16th, after you have enjoyed your steak on the 14th.

If we were talking about hundreds of dollars I'd be with you, but I can't think of anything that can't be bought in bulk with just a bit of planning. I am not talking about stocking your freezer with steak, but rather buying a large bag of rice. A large bag of rice costs about $1 a pound, and a 10lb bag is about 60 servings or in other words almost two weeks of all your carb servings.

I agree with you that the poor should try to save a little bit of money so that they can bulk buy or take advantage of bargains. But it is difficult to maintain savings whilst you are poor. I think you should restrict your bulk buy purchases to say $5 per week on food. (You need to save money for other things as well.) So you could have your $10 bag of rice with $5 from your $20 and $5 from savings. This would reduce your spend to $15 in week two if you were to maintain your savings.

Spending a little time planning is part of the experiment. People these days buy groceries like the buy fast food, on impulse, and that needs to change.

I agree. Planning saves money and avoids waste.

Its one of the caricatures of the poor, a refrigerator full of condiments but no food. But like I said they can be challenged if you think it isn't normal enough.

Condiments cost money too, you should really include them in your costs. I would suggest that as soon as you get to your apartment you decide what condiments you will be using during the week. Add up the value of those condiments, with allowance for use, then divide by 50 (50 weeks plus two for waste). So if you have $100 of condiments that’s $2. Take the $2 (or whatever) off the $20 giving you $18 remaining.
If you need to buy a condiment during the week it would come out of the $18 remaining.

Not in this experiment. As far as I know most of the poor in the US have electricity so that concerns a part of their overall budget separate from food costs.

I assume that the poor in the US have to pay for electricity or gas for cooking. If you chose to buy cheaper cuts of meat that is perfectly good and tasty but requires more cooking that should be recorded. If you save $5 by buying stuff that takes a lot of cooking but it costs you $3 extra to cook it, then you only save $2. If poor people plan as you will be doing they also cook in away too minimise the cost of cooking, such cook something in the oven one day and eat half of it the following day.

I think you should record the cost separately from your $20 but you should record it.

We shall see. I should point out I am relying heavily on in store deals, something I watch every shopper at the grocery store largely ignore. Brand selection helps a lot.

I agree supermarket own brands are often as good as named brands and they are cheaper.

Honestly even if I don't hit the $20 mark but rather $25 or $30 I would consider that a moral success. Most of the poor spend FAR more than that a week on food per person, especially when you factor in the savings of multiple person households.

If you spend more than $20 you have lost. You will have demonstrated that you cannot plan and control your budget, if you go 25% or 50% over budget. Poor people cannot magic another 50% of money to spend on food out of the either, so neither should you if you are serious with your experiment.

For reference I will be using the Harris Teeter on Colonial Avenue, Norfolk VA for all my shopping. Their prices are available online for the most part.

The cost of transport is a large cost for poor people. For this reason poor people often shop close to where they live to reduce transport costs.

So you should only dive to Harris Teeter once in the week.

If you want to go more often you should walk or deduct the cost of the bus fare from your $20 . It is not really realistic to drive a long way, spending $1or $2 to see if you can pick up something reduced from $2 to $1 each day. If you cannot walk to Harris Teeter then I would suggest that you also nominate a nearer shop as well.

 

[classical_hero]

$20 dollars in Australia is just not possible. If it is $50 it might be possible to do.

 

[dutchfire]

Condiments are things like Ketchup right? I would think that these usually form a rather small part of your meals (I haven't bought a new bottle of ketchup since August, and that is the only condiment I have...), but if they do, one should try to include them. But honestly, if you're spending a significant part of your budget on condiments, then I think I have identified the problem.

I think the available equipment & electricity costs are an interesting point, but we're totally unable to account for it. (E.g. I only have a tiny freezer, which seriously hampers my ability to bulk purchase certain stuff.)

I live in walking distance of 4 major supermarkets and don't have a car anyway, so I mostly do shopping daily anyway. I think the 1 supermarket rule is good for people with a car, to prevent them driving around for bargains in a way poor people couldn't (and wasting gas...).

If you spend more than $20 you have lost.

Well, at least for me, this isn't so much about proving that €20 is enough in every case, but more about exploring the issue and looking at where the bottlenecks are.

 

[Patroklos]

There is a COLA adjustment resource in the rules, use that if you feel your area is significantly more expensive!

And yeah missing the $20 mark probably shouldn't mean "lose" but rather just missed that. Like I said if I ended up at $30 I would still consider most of the stated goals met for all intents and purposes.

 

[Silurian]

For this exercise I would regard "Condiments" as things like Ketchup but also things that are open that you use a little of often. I have just had a look in my cupboard and have coffee, teas, sugar, various spices, salt, flour, jam, margarine, gravy and stock cubes; to the value of about £12. I purchased tea last week and coffee the week before.

Patroklos noted that he would value the "tin of tuna" he took out of his store cupboard but this does not really account for lots of small things that are only partly used.

It all depends on how honest Patroklos wants to be with what he is spending on food. If he has lots of stuff he will be using to improve the taste of his food why shouldn,t he acknowledge the cost.

 

[Zelig]

Well tea and coffee have essentially no nutritional value, if you're not including milk or sugar, I'd hardly count them as food.

I'll estimate costs for flour, jam or sugar, but I'm not going to try to work out costs for salt and pepper - anything without nutritional value I'm not counting. (And my salt costs work out to pennies per week anyway.)

 

[Silurian]

Well tea and coffee have essentially no nutritional value, if you're not including milk or sugar, I'd hardly count them as food.

I'll estimate costs for flour, jam or sugar, but I'm not going to try to work out costs for salt and pepper - anything without nutritional value I'm not counting. (And my salt costs work out to pennies per week anyway.)

Well he did say all beverages were included.

Well regarding salt.

From BBC

Iodine deficiency is the most common cause of preventable mental impairment worldwide, affecting a third of the world's population. It also causes thyroid problems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13034582