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elitetroops
Deity
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Been staring at this for half an hour and can't decide where to settle.
SIP?
+ corn, coastal clam, 6 gems
+ fresh water
+ 4 forests
- might prevent settling anything further south on landmass and potentially kill seafood
- can only ever share one of the gems with another city
- fish cannot be grabbed from this landmass
PH 1SE?
+ PH
+ 4 forests
+/- no idea what else is down there
- clam and 4 gems only??? In this context that absolutely sucks
2N on gems?
+ corn, fish and 6 gems
+ can share almost all gems with other cities in south or E/NE
+ guaranteed I'll get at least 3 cities on this land mass and I don't kill any seafood
+ potentially a beast with moai (9 coastal tiles in BFC)
- no chops, no strong hammer tiles, all early production would come from whipping out gems
Think 2N is best. SIP would be better as a capital, but I have no idea what I'm potentially losing in the south and no tile sharing makes it very bad early on.
Map is huge/cold/low sea level/tiny islands archipelago. I noticed in tests they often clump all gems together in one spot. Didn't expect to start in that spot. Better me than some AI, I suppose.
Still not sure if I even want to play this. With this amount of gems it feels like cheating.
SIP?
+ corn, coastal clam, 6 gems
+ fresh water
+ 4 forests
- might prevent settling anything further south on landmass and potentially kill seafood
- can only ever share one of the gems with another city
- fish cannot be grabbed from this landmass
PH 1SE?
+ PH
+ 4 forests
+/- no idea what else is down there
- clam and 4 gems only??? In this context that absolutely sucks
2N on gems?
+ corn, fish and 6 gems
+ can share almost all gems with other cities in south or E/NE
+ guaranteed I'll get at least 3 cities on this land mass and I don't kill any seafood
+ potentially a beast with moai (9 coastal tiles in BFC)
- no chops, no strong hammer tiles, all early production would come from whipping out gems
Think 2N is best. SIP would be better as a capital, but I have no idea what I'm potentially losing in the south and no tile sharing makes it very bad early on.
Map is huge/cold/low sea level/tiny islands archipelago. I noticed in tests they often clump all gems together in one spot. Didn't expect to start in that spot. Better me than some AI, I suppose.
Still not sure if I even want to play this. With this amount of gems it feels like cheating.
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Noble Zarkon
Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)
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2N seems right to me then probably the PH makes for a nice 2nd city.
If 2N, you could get jungle growth on 1 gem in your BFC.
My instinct is to SIP or you waste a gem.
You want 2 food, so PH is out unless you reveal something.
How about move the scout and then decide? (edit: oh , you moved already)
My instinct is to SIP or you waste a gem.
You want 2 food, so PH is out unless you reveal something.
How about move the scout and then decide? (edit: oh , you moved already)
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Or submit the game for a GotM and let us all play it!
Pangaea
Rock N Roller
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Hmm, hard to decide where to settle, but think I agree with WT on SIP. Then maybe 2nd city on the jungle gems 2E of corn. Can share corn plus some gems. Probably more gems to the south anyway, including coastal gems
Shame about the fish, but maybe you want it from the island anyway. And food neutral gems are quite nice compared to 0-food golds. Would hurt to whip tho.
Shame about the fish, but maybe you want it from the island anyway. And food neutral gems are quite nice compared to 0-food golds. Would hurt to whip tho.
With that tech rate and that capital, you gotta go for CS slingshot.
And you need to find +happies ASAP.
What is that Gandhi?
And you need to find +happies ASAP.
What is that Gandhi?
Pangaea
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Vikings I think since he talked about Berserkers.
elitetroops
Deity
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Already settled 2N. One thing I forgot to consider was that without forests it gets unhealthy very fast. Luckily I got the herbalist event for +2 health in all cities (and potential pop loss) before it grew to pop 2.
Not much else exciting going on on this little island. Second city will go on PH, can settle one more further south with 2nd ring fish and one NE to pick up the last two gems but no food. Will have to expand to other islands asap. Met two AI, scouts on the island NW. That seems to be a bigger landmass. Can see land all around me and some seafood that cannot be reached from my land mass.
It's Ragnar. Plan is to take out as many AI as possible with Berserkers, CS slingshot it is for sure. This is huge/immortal/normal speed, 17 AI and plan is time victory. The more AI I can kill before longbows the better. Have to eliminate them all eventually (except leave one with an arctic city somewhere).
Scout parked on gems next to jungle as soon as island was checked out. It's safe.
Not much else exciting going on on this little island. Second city will go on PH, can settle one more further south with 2nd ring fish and one NE to pick up the last two gems but no food. Will have to expand to other islands asap. Met two AI, scouts on the island NW. That seems to be a bigger landmass. Can see land all around me and some seafood that cannot be reached from my land mass.
It's Ragnar. Plan is to take out as many AI as possible with Berserkers, CS slingshot it is for sure. This is huge/immortal/normal speed, 17 AI and plan is time victory. The more AI I can kill before longbows the better. Have to eliminate them all eventually (except leave one with an arctic city somewhere).
Scout parked on gems next to jungle as soon as island was checked out. It's safe.
elitetroops
Deity
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Huge tiny island archipelago is crazy. It seems they almost always have a big cluster of gems somewhere, often one of the teams start in the middle of it. I had map finder run over night saving all gems starts, found several more with 3-6 BFC gems and more to pick up nearby. Some of them had otherwise much better land than the one I found yesterday. This will be a very long game and I'll want to play it only once, so now I'm thinking I should run map finder a few nights to find the best gems cluster start out of a big batch. When 9 gems isn't good enough...
Pangaea
Rock N Roller
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Any 10-gems start yet?
Trying out a new start here as well, as the triple gold had few forests and almost no food nearby. Can always go back to it. Using random events this time, and dang. This is rather nice on the same turn AH is researched:
Trying out a new start here as well, as the triple gold had few forests and almost no food nearby. Can always go back to it. Using random events this time, and dang. This is rather nice on the same turn AH is researched:
Spoiler :
Pangaea
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I have a question about city gifting and culture, as I found this rather unexpected in a game where I had to gift away a city to avoid domination. Maybe one of the experts like @WastinTime, @Kaitzilla or @Fippy know this by heart? Or the other HoF'ers?
Here is the city I gifted away:
Prior to gifting it away, it had over 2500 (Epic)
, so 60%. It was building lots of culture to try to combat Lincoln's Hermitage + Wonders city right next-door. But after the gift, basically everything disappeared and Lincoln controls all the tiles, despite not having any (or very little) culture there (east of the city). The tile with 48% marker kept its culture, and interestingly the 37% too (with the cata), despite not being in the BFC of my city north (that also has 60% culture). I did slowly build up percentages on the town and iron and some other tiles, but it's as if everything was wiped clean.
However, the city itself seemed to have my culture for reason, at least for spy mission rebate purposes (got 50% early on, and it slowly went down to 48% etc).
I found this whole thing very surprising, and had expected to retain the town and iron tile, where the latter was important due to Mining Inc.
Did all that culture we had there essentially become Lincoln's culture instantly? What happened?
Here is the city I gifted away:
Spoiler :
Prior to gifting it away, it had over 2500 (Epic)
, so 60%. It was building lots of culture to try to combat Lincoln's Hermitage + Wonders city right next-door. But after the gift, basically everything disappeared and Lincoln controls all the tiles, despite not having any (or very little) culture there (east of the city). The tile with 48% marker kept its culture, and interestingly the 37% too (with the cata), despite not being in the BFC of my city north (that also has 60% culture). I did slowly build up percentages on the town and iron and some other tiles, but it's as if everything was wiped clean.However, the city itself seemed to have my culture for reason, at least for spy mission rebate purposes (got 50% early on, and it slowly went down to 48% etc).
I found this whole thing very surprising, and had expected to retain the town and iron tile, where the latter was important due to Mining Inc.
Did all that culture we had there essentially become Lincoln's culture instantly? What happened?
Fippy is right.I have a question about city gifting and culture, as I found this rather unexpected in a game where I had to gift away a city to avoid domination. Maybe one of the experts like @WastinTime, @Kaitzilla or @Fippy know this by heart? Or the other HoF'ers?
Here is the city I gifted away:
Spoiler :
Prior to gifting it away, it had over 2500 (Epic)
However, the city itself seemed to have my culture for reason, at least for spy mission rebate purposes (got 50% early on, and it slowly went down to 48% etc).
I found this whole thing very surprising, and had expected to retain the town and iron tile, where the latter was important due to Mining Inc.
Did all that culture we had there essentially become Lincoln's culture instantly? What happened?
All the plot(tile) culture in the 1st ring (8 tiles) of the gifted city vanishes.
In contrast, the civ receiving the city gets +1 plot culture on the 8 tiles around the city, so they get control unless a 3rd civ has a claim on the tiles.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/plot-culture-mechanics.633767/#post-15392025
It makes gifting cities on the border a real headache because it can take many, many turns to get back control of the tiles in the inner ring peacefully.
The spy bonuses in the gifted city were kept because it is based on city culture.
**Edit**
The plot culture on the city tile itself is also lost.
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rt. city culture and tile culture are two different things.
Pangaea
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Thank you, that's an excellent explanation. Fits perfectly with what happened in the game, including the city tile itself. It was roughly 50/50 prior to the gift (there was a major culture battle), and everything just went *poof*Fippy is right.
All the plot(tile) culture in the 1st ring (8 tiles) of the gifted city vanishes.
In contrast, the civ receiving the city gets +1 plot culture on the 8 tiles around the city, so they get control unless a 3rd civ has a claim on the tiles.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/plot-culture-mechanics.633767/#post-15392025
It makes gifting cities on the border a real headache because it can take many, many turns to get back control of the tiles in the inner ring peacefully.
The spy bonuses in the gifted city were kept because it is based on city culture.
**Edit**
The plot culture on the city tile itself is also lost.
Reading that thread, pretty complex mechanics under the hood.
Pangaea
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Been re-reading this GM-137 thread recently. Both fun and frustrating to kinda re-live the whole thing, as majestic as the gauntlet was. Seraiel and I posted... a lot.Also, I finally discovered something that has been bugging me.
You know how sometimes you steal a worker with Aggressive AI and sometimes the AI won't talk peace no matter what you do?
It turns out that it is due to a Holy City!
I stole a worker from Peter in my latest game and after a few turns I got a cease fire by threatening 1 city (warrior within 2 tiles).
Then 20 turns later after he founded Buddhism, I stole another worker.
A few turns went by, then I got within 2 tiles of one of his cities and he would not sign Cease Fire.
So I threatened 2 cities.
Still, no cease fire.
Then I killed a scout and got a Cease Fire.
So if you are stealing workers, avoid the civs that found a religion, unless you can capture 2 workers + threaten 2 cities, or capture 1 worker + threaten 3 cities.
Anyway, this post caught my attention and I recalled it when something similar happened in my current game. Funnily with Peter as well. He got a Holy City, and a naughty warrior noticed a worker improving furs. Nabbed him, and ended up next to a city with two archers in it. Sadly one of them attacked and cleaned me out (not even a scratch). Thought I'd be fine with only two archers there, as they rarely attack then, but maybe one of them had been guarding workers earlier. Naturally it was very hard to get peace after that. Managed to corner a scout and kill him, but still no peace. But when I settled a third city, he was willing to sign a cease fire. I've noticed this many times. Can't get peace with one city, but the instant I found another one, they will sign peace. Looks to me like city count is very important for these calculations. In that game, Peter also had 3 cities (founded one briefly before I did), so maybe the human is at a great disadvantage if you have fewer cities than the AI you are at war with?
Actually surprised me that he was willing to peace out in this case, as he had more war success and we had 3 cities each. He killed the warrior+worker, while I only got a scout. Plus he has the holy city. This wasn't with AggAI though, if that matters a lot. Nor did I threaten any cities, because.. well, the warrior died. And it was far away.
Other factors at play there too, like power, but maybe this city count factor is a reason why it's so dangerous to workersteal on Deity and then fail to get a cease fire?
