The Historical Basis for Catalonian Independence

Yeah, that's just GST but still fairly sizable. However to compare to Spain or the USA we'd need to be looking at all revenue and spending, not just the sales tax redistribution.

On the collection side there's income tax and corporate tax as contributors to general revenue, I bet Western Australians pay a lot more of that on a per capita basis than some states. And then that revenue goes to aged pensions, to unemployment and other welfare and to health. Those will also be unevenly concentrated around the country, and probably less concentrated in WA. If I were a Western Australian secessionist looking to construct a whinge about how much we lose, I could do a lot better than just looking at GST.
 
Mmm. This all goes to show that Colin Barnett is an incompetent traitor :(
 
Or just a coward
 
How is it that the desire of Catalonians for independence needs to be justified to a Briton? Methinks the Irish didn't ask the French for approval.

It doesn't need to be at all. I never suggested such.

Yeees. You're a Scot, if I remember correctly. And you're going to vote no next year, aye? Sometimes one just doesn't remember to do the distinction.

No, I'm almost as English as they come, but I believe in a united UK as it were and I would certainly vote no if I lived in Scotland. In fact, I dislike being called English, because it implies that the English culture is more important than British nationality.
 
Why would I have to do that? Are you imply Jews, Catalans, and Palestinians cannot get along?

EDIT: In reference to Domen but I didn't realize the thread had experienced a burst of speed.
 
It doesn't need to be at all. I never suggested such.



No, I'm almost as English as they come, but I believe in a united UK as it were and I would certainly vote no if I lived in Scotland. In fact, I dislike being called English, because it implies that the English culture is more important than British nationality.

Damn! Who was the Scot then? I know there is one Scot I know here somew- Ah, Oh, My God, I don't know how could I mix you up with RobertCan't. :blush:

EDIT: To address all of the "Other Communities get your money to pay their welfare" which is true, Catalonia is the second most populous Community, and evidently its welfare network and services cost more than in any Community with less inhabitants than, say, the city of Barcelona (which are Murcia, Aragón, Baleares, Extremadura, Asturias, Navarra, Cantabria and La Rioja).
 
No, one Scot who'd not as Scottish. RobertCan't was the one I meant, he doesn't even post in OT.
 
If you all really want independence, why don't you all raise a guerilla army and fight for it like most of the rest of the world had to :mischief:. If the Palau idea doesn't work out, I don't see why Spain can't sell you all to Morocco if you all truly are ungovernable
 
"present redistributive mechanisms are somewhat imperfect and the subject of ongoing negotiations"

"this is oppression, we must secede!"
Oh man, this is grand :lol:

Catalonian independence will prolly make the world record for funniest reason to secede.

Further on topic, i think these countries should secede too.
 
As said, we tried to work out a better mechanism. The central government doesn't want to go further down the road there, so what else can we do? We could do as we did with the fiscal reform in 1898 and close down most businesses so they don't have to pay taxes.
 
EDIT: To address all of the "Other Communities get your money to pay their welfare" which is true, Catalonia is the second most populous Community, and evidently its welfare network and services cost more than in any Community with less inhabitants than, say, the city of Barcelona (which are Murcia, Aragón, Baleares, Extremadura, Asturias, Navarra, Cantabria and La Rioja).

Yes, but as the second biggest Community, and one that is doing well economically, Catalonia should be able to pay it's own way no?

I still feel like the desire for secession is based on 'My Taxes!' and 'That Franco guy sure was a dick'.
 
And so what? Any reason is valid, and it is the will of the people of Catalonia which should be taken into account at the time of recognising or supporting something like this. In the end, legitimacy is given by the people. Still it is quite difficult to pay our bills, far larger than many communities, when 10% of our GDP vanishes into thin air.
 
I'm just saying it makes you guys sound like selfish jerks. I'd not be surprised to learn that there was more to it, but I haven't heard it. Which of course has no bearing on whether Catalonia should secede, but neither does anything on this internet message board.

But I really don't get why you're upset about your bills being bigger, because of course they are; you have more people. Your income should be proportionally bigger as well.
 
Yes. We are more, we make more and are richer than most of the rest of Spain. But then we go from 4th to 9th community in terms of disposable monetary and financial assets.
 
Does Catalonia provide a generally higher level of government services (schools, healthcare, etc.) than the other communities of Spain?
 
I think I will start calling JoanK, that Spanish Texan [Irony I know] everytime I see him.

I still don't think I have seen a reason that would ever make me supportive of Catalonian independence
 
Why should you? Simply acknowledge and respect what Catalans decide, that's all. And why shouldn't you do that? There are no reasons to oppose a democratic decision taken by a free people?
 
Why should you? Simply acknowledge and respect what Catalans decide, that's all. And why shouldn't you do that? There are no reasons to oppose a democratic decision taken by a free people?
It's not clear that national self-determination is actually a "right". It's certainly caused, or helped cause, some of the worst atrocities and most egregious bloodshed of the twentieth century, along with untold amounts of international instability.
 
But people have a right to a nationality. Self-determination should always be valid when it defines a people as either a nation/state of its own or as a part of a larger political entity. Collective rights and will should never be imposed over individual freedoms, however.
 
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