The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix

[johnny_rico]

I'd vote to settle in place but it's just what I do. It is a solid location and the few water tiles you have won't make a negative impact until much later in the game (size 17+). I like the possibility of horses on grassland or possible copper/iron on the grassland hill if you settle in place.

Since you have stone and Mehmed's building is an aquaduct, you may consider the hanging gardens. It's a nice synergy but it won't put you miles ahead. Just an easy combo on a logical path.

Pyramids as well for representation and you will boom. CoL also important for early courthouses (1/2 price - organized).

With efficient play, is it conceivable to get the oracle, pyramids, and hanging gardens? This seems half baked on immortal but doable on monarch/emperor (where I play). This could lay the foundation for a nice SE, early courthouses, representation and caste system. Need to see more of the map for food. Of course, this doesn't lay itself to Invisible's ICS thread which I believe is based on cottaged economy.

 

[MyOtherName]

I'd say settle in place, but 1S isn't bad. From what I see it's only 1 ocean tile in the current BFC - I would not flip out over that. The extra early hammer will make a much bigger difference than the 20th tile.

I don't care about the sea tile myself; I just mentioned it for completeness. In my mind the extra hills are a big deal, since the starting tile doesn't have enough ways to directly convert a food surplus into hammers.

Ignore fishing for now - between the wheat and the pigs you will have more than enough food for a long time.

Fishing has several advantages. First, fish give ; you will recover your investment fairly quickly. Secondly, I assert the pigs need to be mined. Fishing means that we don't have to spend early worker turns on the pasture or early on animal husbandry. Also, it makes pottery cheaper and unlocks sailing should it be useful for some reason.

 

[VirusMonster]

settle one spot to the south!

 

[cheffster]

s e t t l e -i n- p l a c e . . . plains hills with +1 hammers early on can make all the difference, all your missing out on is the silk which you can't really work untill calender. Think about it, pigs+wheat+fish+stone it doens't get much better then that. Might as well not waste time moving your settler, and settling on the coast let me remid you -- gives the ability to build: Lighthouse, harbor and customs house, costal cities throughout a game rack in much more commerce and aren't as limited by health restrictions.

 

[Rusten]

Settle in place, the river won't go anywhere.

 

[Winth]

cheffster - actually, Aelf plays Warlords, and as I remember, there are no Customs Houses in this version...

 

[vicawoo]

I don't care about the sea tile myself; I just mentioned it for completeness. In my mind the extra hills are a big deal, since the starting tile doesn't have enough ways to directly convert a food surplus into hammers.



Fishing has several advantages. First, fish give ; you will recover your investment fairly quickly. Secondly, I assert the pigs need to be mined. Fishing means that we don't have to spend early worker turns on the pasture or early on animal husbandry. Also, it makes pottery cheaper and unlocks sailing should it be useful for some reason.

Have to strongly disagree here. Fishing gives you 2 extra commerce, which can be significant, more so if there are multiple sources. From what you see right now, there aren't. Fishing costs 40 base, before multipliers. It's immortal so it will cost more, so on regular speed it would take at least 20 turns to catch up, i'm guessing on immortal it might take twice as long.

Second, about wasting worker turns: a fishing boat costs half a worker, relatively more for expansive. In the long run, a worker is much better, and a pasture is 4 turns on normal, fastest non-road improvement.

It's ok as a cheap alternative to animal husbandry, but those are often 6 food/hammer tiles. If you hate cottages, fishing is more useful, but expansive leaders probably want pottery.


And really optimal city placement depends on your plan. If you're axe rushing, you definitely want to settle in place.

 

[Mesousa]

1S

... though I think you people are just trying to beat the "where to settle" debate from the current ALC.

 

[aelf]

If I'm not mistaken, there are 15 votes for 1S, 12 for settling in place and 3 for 2W+1S. Since 1S is the clear winner according to the poll, we will settle 1S if we do indeed get fresh water. I will check. If we don't, I think the benefits of settling in place, which a few people have already mentioned, outweigh that of moving 1S.

 

[LightSpectra]

Settle in place! What would 1S do?

 

[Artichoker]

Such an excellent start with so many resources in the capital's BFC...and access to the coastline, so you can build a Harbor.

The 1 turn to move to a nearby city site is too costly, and probably gains you nothing.

 

[darrelljs]

Forgive the crude drawing, it's just to help visualize what's in the BFC.

Oops . I feel bad you had to draw that diagram to correct my error.

Darrell

 

[dragomaster]

Settle in place! What would 1S do?

Fresh water, no ocean, more land.

Risking a loss of strategic resourse in BFC though. Hard chois. If there is no strategic resours to the north i whood settle 1 S ten out of ten times.

 

[Gliese 581]

If there's still time to vote I say settle in place. Moving in this case makes no sense to me as the extra hammer from the plains hill is huge and there's no guarantee that you get much more land tiles (production) from moving south.

 

[Artichoker]

Fresh water, no ocean, more land.

Risking a loss of strategic resourse in BFC though. Hard chois. If there is no strategic resours to the north i whood settle 1 S ten out of ten times.

I disagree. Fresh water is not so important when you're on the coast, since you can build a Harbor to increase health.

Also, there is a risk that the 3 uncovered squares to the south yield something worse than what is to the north.

But the main drawback of going 1S is that you lose an entire turn to get there.

 

[Scaphism]

Oops . I feel bad you had to draw that diagram to correct my error.

Darrell

No problem, I did it to help myself visualize it as well.

If it turns out 1S has fresh water, then the Stone is not on a peninsula, and those ?s in my sketch are not coast tiles but lake and land.

If that's the case, you're gaining a few land tiles. You do lose that grassland hill in the N, even if you do gain the plains hill you are currently on. Production wise I think you come out ahead settling on the plains hill since you'll get that hammer from the start and you still can mine the grassland hill.

As for increased river tiles -
You gain 1 silk on the river and the tile SE of the silk, which looks like it'll probably be a plains tile. It can be watermilled, which is good. You lose the grassland river tile in the N, but it's at the bend of the river so no watermill, which means a cottage or farm.

I already cast my vote for settling in place and I'm not changing that. You rarely get to see so much of the BFC before settling - in this case only 1 tile is still obscured. I'd be pretty happy with everything showing and I wouldn't want to give up that grassland hill to the N for the chance of something better appearing in the S.

 

[Bleys]

Settle that puppy and lets get on with it aelf!!

I dont think any of the options are bad, and while one or the other may have a moderate impact down the road, for now, I think all the choices are acceptable and highly playable. The voting looks pretty split, so I would put the "final call" on your personal preference. Coast, coast wasting a turn, or inland wasting a turn.

 

[markiz2001]

settle in place since it's a mountain, 2F2P is better then 2F1P.

although stone on a plains hill is so rare I always settle on it if I can. it comes online right away after researching masonry, and I don't even have to build a quarry-road, which takes almost as long as stonehange itself.

 

[oyzar]

You don't lose 1 turn by going south. You lose 5 turns out of the first 20 15 out of the first 40 etc... It is just a huge snowball effect and there is no way freshwater is ever going to catch up with +1 hammer at the very start...

 

[Artichoker]

settle in place since it's a mountain, 2F2P is better then 2F1P.

although stone on a plains hill is so rare I always settle on it if I can. it comes online right away after researching masonry, and I don't even have to build a quarry-road, which takes almost as long as stonehange itself.

Absolutely...at first, I didn't even notice the plains hill, but I still would have settled in place.

With the extra +1 hammer, it's no contest.

The argument of having fresh water is weak as well since there are plenty of health bonuses for settling in place. First of all, we already have the +2 health bonus for being Expansive. In addition, we can build a Harbor in this coastal city, thus further increasing our health. I see absolutely no need to have fresh water, when it costs an entire turn to move the settler to that spot.