The importance of the Hadith, and their impact on modern Islam

aneeshm

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In debates concerning Islam, lots of people maintain, in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary, that Islam is a religion of peace.

The usual refutation is a set of verses from the Quran which explicitly preach hatred.

The usual response to that is that the verses were taken out of context, and that they need a proper "interpretation" to get at their true meaning.

It is at this point that debate comes to a standstill, because this is a point so contentious that argument over it can go on back and forth practically forever.







However, most people ignore the fact that the Quran is merely the text, it is the Hadith, or collection of incidents from the Prophet's life, which provide both the context, and the instantiation of the principles given in the Quran.

Also, the Hadith are quite simple in nature, requiring no "interpretation". They are like little moral fables. One of the reasons they are ignored is that, though they are the primary source of Islamic law even now, they are not given a "holy" status. They are, however, as important to the religion as the Quran is, at least in practical matters.








How do the people who claim that "Islam is a religion of peace" reconcile themselves with Hadith like the following:

Link

Book 38, Number 4348:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

Though I was aware of the Prophet's brutality (he was, after all, living in a tribal society, where blood and honour were intimately involved with the law), this took my opinion of him to a new low.

Would the Defenders of the Islamic Faith please tell me how the "interpret" this particular Hadith?

It is only recently that I have started seriously investigating the Hadith, and I will post more instances and findings as I go along.







The real problem, IMO, is not that these Hadith exist, but that such Hadith, and the life of such a man, is used as the source of modern Islamic law, which has caused and still causes untold suffering all over the world. If they were just stories in a book, nobody would really give a damn.
 
In debates concerning Islam, lots of people maintain, in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary, that Islam is a religion of peace.

No... Islam is just a religion. It has both violent and peaceful followers, and as such labelling it as one and not the other is offensive and innaccurate.
 
The religion is based on many violent pasages. No one is saying all muslims are violent just that islam is inherently violent and that the basis in violence even today causes violence. But what do you expect from a religion founded by a brutal warlord who gave the option of convert or die.
 
No... Islam is just a religion. It has both violent and peaceful followers, and as such labelling it as one and not the other is offensive and innaccurate.

Islam is both a set of ideas and a tradition. It can, therefore, be judged on the basis of the effects of said ideas and the impact and influence of the tradition.

However, please do not drag this thread off-topic. I'd like a serious discussion on the Hadith, as much as is possible given the controversial nature of the topic.
 
The religion is based on many violent pasages. No one is saying all muslims are violent just that islam is inherently violent and that the basis in violence even today causes violence.

I still fail to see the point. The same can be said for Christianity after all, but I don't see anyone saying it.
 
Islam is both a set of ideas and a tradition. It can, therefore, be judged on the basis of the effects of said ideas and the impact and influence of the tradition.

Islam is above all a group of people, and should be judged solely on those people (who may or may not be influenced by this "tradition").

However, please do not drag this thread off-topic. I'd like a serious discussion on the Hadith, as much as is possible given the controversial nature of the topic.

On topic then... they don't look very pleasent. So...?
 
I still fail to see the point. The same can be said for Christianity after all, but I don't see anyone saying it.

The old point to christianity ploy.

A religion is not the some of its followers but the sum of its teachings.

Without followers a religion still exsists as its books and texts. The koran and hadith teach much about hate and violence to the non-believer and infidels and heritics. Something you're hard pressed to find in the bible in such regularity and with such fervor.
 
We evidently have different definitions. Why do you define it as such?

Because without the teachings you have no followers but with out followers you still have the teachings. A religion is its books. In the case of islam its books are ripe with teachings of violence to non-muslims and women. That is why islam is a religion of violence. It was based in the violent words or a violent warlord that still day teaches muslims to be violent. All you have to do is read it and you will see that. Most of the bible is not a directory to kill the non-believer and instead calls for peace. After some more of thehadith is posted you'll see that its teachings are not of peace and tollerance.
 
Because the people change, but their source of inspiration remain the texts and the traditions.

Precisely why defining it your way is meaningless. The followers change, but the religion they follow is still called 'Islam'.

skadistic said:
Because without the teachings you have no followers

And therefore no religion

but with out followers you still have the teachings.

You have teachings, but not a religion.
 
Precisely why defining it your way is meaningless. The followers change, but the religion they follow is still called 'Islam'.



And therefore no religion



You have teachings, but not a religion.

Boy do you have it all wrong. The teachings are the religion not the followers.


Sorry 'bout the threadjack. Taking this else where.
 
Boy do you have it all wrong. The teachings are the religion not the followers.

Its only a definition, and a useless definition is by definition useless. So why define a religion to be a set of teachings, especially given all the problem incurred when people who claim to follow the same religion disagree on what the teachings are...?
 
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