[RD] The Last Jedi – Another Cold Rehash

[warpus]

They had to make the first movie of the trilogy as Star Warsy as possible, since people were so disappointed with the prequels, who didn't feel Star Warsy at all. So they rehashed a lot of the original plot, and used it as a way to get people excited about Star Wars again, by giving them something they know and are nostalgic about, but also made it as a passing of the torch sort of thing where old characters are replaced with new ones. The first movie was pretty much a setup/passing of the torch/get us feeling good about Star Wars again. It has served its purpose and now the movies that follow can go into other directions

I predict that the next installment is not going to be such a close rehash, but it is going to in many ways stay close to that "Star Warsy" feeling, while at the time time not being afraid to branch out and try new things. Now that we've been introduced to the new characters, and the old ones have passed on (for the most part), and now that people are excited about Star Wars again, I feel that the next installment is going to throw some surprises our way. You can't keep milking the same cow, eventually it runs out of milk. I really doubt they are going to allow the franchise to go stale by rehashing the same thing over and over.

 

[BvBPL]

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before:

We open on an orphan living hard scrabble on a desert world. The orphan’s life is thrown in disarray at the discovery of secret plans for the big evil. And so the orphan is off on a grand adventure, thrown together with some allies of circumstance. Our ragtag band briefly visits a wretched hive of scum and villainy before being chased off in a fight. After they regroup, our heroes have a laser sword fight, a trusted mentor dies, and a big, round space weapon gets blown up.

 

[Synobun]

Yes, it's very easy to sound right when you try to boil it down to a vague synopsis with zero specifics. Why do you make threads, and interact in discussions, about things you dislike and are entirely unwilling to look beyond your surface level prejudice? It is a colossal waste of time.

 

[BvBPL]

Not only is the plot the same, but the characters from the prior movies are in the same position as before. Han Solo is still a hard-luck smuggler. Chewie is still standing by Han, right or wrong, and that’s still all of his personality. C3PO is still an ineffective caricature of a fop, only present for a few cheap laughs. R2D2 is still a total jerk by still holding onto a map until the moment when he will get the most attention for revealing it [still]. Leia is still a hard-edged woman more concerned about the rebellion than interpersonal relationships. For that matter, they are still rebels despite having taken down the Empire. It’s like they took all the growth from the initial movies, such as it was, and sanded it back down.

Luke’s about the only character in a different position. That’s probably because the Force let him see this was the same thing happening again for like the fourth time so why not kip off to the Irish Sea for a spell.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You don't like Star Wars, you don't want to guillotine the president. I'm starting to think that you just don't like having fun.

A little off topic... but still related because Disney... In the latest installment of Pirates of the Fans Money, AKA Moneygrabs of the Caribbean... Captain Jack Sparrow (Johnny Depp) is being executed for the nth time Spoiler alert:

Spoiler :

he gets away... shockingly

Anyway the cheeky British Soldier taking off the Pokey-wagon says

Soldier: Come on. You're first! And how would you like to die pirate? Hanging, firing squad or a new invention. - The guillotine.
Johnny Depp: Guillotine? Sounds french. I love the French. Did you know they've invented mayonnaise? How bad could it be? It's French, right? *sees the guillotine*
Johhny Depp: Oh, my bad! I change mi mind.. No please have mercy for me. I am a bet wetter. Oh, come on! I mean I have to walk upstairs as well for this?
Soldier: Bring the basket.
Drepp: Basket.. why?
Soldier: Step him down!
Depp: Here's an idea. Why don't we try good old fashioned stoning? I'd kill to be stoned right now. Gets the crowd involved, doesn't it? I should like to speak to Victor in disembowelment. I should like to speak to Vic.
*looks in Guillotine basket*
Depp: I'm not the one who, complain normally, but this basket is full of heads.

Johnny Depp famously said that he would keep making these terrible films as long as Disney was willing to pay him, with no shame in his game whatsoever. Bringing it full circle to the OP's question. The answer is Disney. That's it, that tells you exactly how Star Wars is going to be handled going forward. Like a Disney franchise. That means it is going to be turned upside down and shaken until every last coin falls out, then squeezed like a washrag until every last drop fall out... then... you get the idea...

This is the company that is literally remaking all its classic films that everyone already saw into live-action/CGI movies just to force you to see/buy them again...

*In sneering Palpatine voice* By now you must know that your stories can never be turned from the Disney side... so will it be with Star Wars...

Full disclosure... I love Disney and have loved Star Wars (and Marvel) since they got involved... so they will continue to fleece me for my coins

 

[luiz]

They still make new Pirates of Caribbean movies? Who goes to the cinema for that? Christ.

 

[Synobun]

They still make new Pirates of Caribbean movies? Who goes to the cinema for that? Christ.

It's very popular in Asia. Still does okay in North America but the true pull is from China now, IIRC.

 

[Sommerswerd]

From Wikipedia:

Box office[edit]
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales grossed $172.6 million in the United States and Canada and $622.2 million in other territories for a worldwide total of $794.8 million, against a production budget of $230 million.[4]

The film had a worldwide opening of $271.4 million from 55 markets, with $24 million coming from 1,088 IMAX screens.[148] The film's six-day opening gross pushed the franchise gross past the $4 billion mark.[149] Despite being the lowest-grossing film of the series in the US by nearly $70 million, the film became the highest-grossing entry of the Pirates franchise internationally when going by modern foreign-exchange rates, passing On Stranger Tides, which grossed $593.4 million at current rates.[150] Despite weak US totals, Deadline.com noted the film should turn a net profit of around $280 million after factoring together all expenses and revenues.[151]

So apparently many, many people, especially Un-Muricans

 

[warpus]

Eventually Hollywood is going to market most of their movies to east Asian tastes and sensibilities and ignore the North American market completely.

 

[BvBPL]

We all know that making things that are very similar to other things is a good way to make money. However, that strategy need not produce cookie-cutter plots, time after time. For example, the Fast and the Furious franchise is generally repetitive from movie to movie, but comparisons within that franchise reveals any given pair of movies is more varied than Star Wars and the Force Awakens.

Eventually Hollywood is going to market most of their movies to east Asian tastes and sensibilities and ignore the North American market completely.

Not so much as long as the Chinese look to emulate the US (which will be for the foreseeable future). Instead, what we will see, what we are seeing now, is the Chinese entering into Hollywood on the finance level and backing American Hollywood films that can be resold back to China.

 

[Traitorfish]

Eventually Hollywood is going to market most of their movies to east Asian tastes and sensibilities and ignore the North American market completely.

I don't know if that's true. Most Hollywood markets are barely marketed to non-American sensibilities as it is. It's only the blockbusters with budgets higher than post-Soviet countries that need to pull in the Asian dollars, and these are also, helpfully, films that translate relatively well between cultures, because they deal in the sort of spectacle and big, sledgehammer themes that don't require a lot of culturally-specific nuance. Everything else- romance, comedies, artsy prestige pieces- neither requires foreign markets, nor is particularly well-suited to them.

What you'll likely see is the emergence of a divergence between global blockbusters and an "American cinema" more similar to European national cinemas, producing low-to-mid budget drams and genre films for mostly domestic consumption.

 

[warpus]

Yeah, I was very much kidding with my last comment.. The problem though is that in order for a movie to do well in China, it can't be critical of China's communist government. So you end up with obviously pro-Chinese content added into blockbusters that isn't really necessary for the plot and was just inserted as a hook for Chinese audiences. I saw this in action in 2 recent blockbusters I watched and it was kind of annoying.. and it seems to me that as China's middle class grows, more and more big Hollywood movies will be custom tailored to do well in that market as well.. leading to worse blockbusters overall. Which is not a huge problem, because I don't watch that many blockbusters, but if each one I end up watching has stuff obviously inserted in it to appeal to certain overseas markets, then that's going to get fast pretty quickly.. especially since different cultures expect different things from their action blockbusters

 

[Manfred Belheim]

It's different because they're not the Sith, they're the Siht.

 

[Broken_Erika]

It's different because they're not the Sith, they're the Siht.

No Siht...

 

[luiz]

Re: the Chinese loving Pirates of the Caribbean

Why do they have such bad taste for movies? I mean, they are a sophisticated people and their middle class ranks very highly in educational achievement and IQ. Yet they seem to love movies that are, let's be honest and speak plainly, usually considered as "for idiots". What's the catch here? Do they like these films like some like van Dame movies, i.e., they're so bad they're good? Or they actually like those bizarre action films they make, plus the worst crap Hollywood throws at them?

I get cultural differences and all, but come on...

 

[warpus]

You could ask the same thing about "dumb" North American audiences who eat up garbage like Fast and Furious 17: Faster and Furiouser

Plus east Asian audiences for the most part do not have a good understanding of the various nuances of American or western culture that make their way into movies. So movies that lack a lot of that depth and focus on appearances instead (like pirates) probably do well over there because ooooh pretty special effects, and all the stuff that would fly over their heads anyway is not there to begin with. To explain further, a movie like Good Will Hunting would probably not do well in China, since the audiences would likely focus on the appearances and not be able to dig into the meat of the movie.

Plus from what I understand east Asian audiences love the big blockbuster, and that's exactly how Pirates is marketed. It's easy to understand to foreign audiences, it's flashy, it's got Hollywood stars, I'm not surprised they're eating it up

 

[Traitorfish]

"What is this hu-man concept you call 'fun'?"

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Not only is the plot the same, but the characters from the prior movies are in the same position as before. Han Solo is still a hard-luck smuggler. Chewie is still standing by Han, right or wrong, and that’s still all of his personality. C3PO is still an ineffective caricature of a fop, only present for a few cheap laughs. R2D2 is still a total jerk by still holding onto a map until the moment when he will get the most attention for revealing it [still]. Leia is still a hard-edged woman more concerned about the rebellion than interpersonal relationships. For that matter, they are still rebels despite having taken down the Empire. It’s like they took all the growth from the initial movies, such as it was, and sanded it back down.

Luke’s about the only character in a different position. That’s probably because the Force let him see this was the same thing happening again for like the fourth time so why not kip off to the Irish Sea for a spell.

Holy crap I forgot all about the 'still rebels' aspect. That actually bothered me more than anything else at the time and I've since forgotten it. It made no sense and they made no effort to explain the galactic political situation other than the title scroll.

 

[Synobun]

Holy crap I forgot all about the 'still rebels' aspect. That actually bothered me more than anything else at the time and I've since forgotten it. It made no sense and they made no effort to explain the galactic political situation other than the title scroll.

To be fair, it's not really pertinent to the movie. I learned what I'm sharing below after I watched, and enjoyed, TFA. Knowing the supplemental information expanded my enjoyment.

The Resistance is a paramilitary group founded by Leia Organa shortly after her fall from being a senator. It exists because the New Republic is demilitarized and generally leans towards "nah" in taking any action against the First Order. They aren't rebels like the Rebel Alliance.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

To be fair, it's not really pertinent to the movie. I learned what I'm sharing below after I watched, and enjoyed, TFA. Knowing the supplemental information expanded my enjoyment.

The Resistance is a paramilitary group founded by Leia Organa shortly after her fall from being a senator. It exists because the New Republic is demilitarized and generally leans towards "nah" in taking any action against the First Order. They aren't rebels like the Rebel Alliance.

The political background is pertinant to the movie! While the original trilogy wasn't as politics-heavy as the prequels, it was still a big factor. We got next to nothing in this movie.

And I thought the First Order (LOL I originally typed the Remnant) was operating outside of the Republic and the Resistance are operating as rebels in that extra-Republic territory. And Resistance is their name - how are they not rebels?

In any case I'd put out there that the fact that we're even having this argument shows how piss poor of a job that movie did at setting up the new reality.