The least deserving civilization?

[Iranon]

Holy Rome - having Holy Rome and Germany at the same time feels more than odd; just contrasting the HRE and Imperial Germany for length/depth of history seems arbitrarily since the ingame German civ encompasses a lot more, including most of the HRE.

Similarly, I agree that Babylon and Sumeria should be one civilisation.

America and Native America independently both have issues that would disqualify either. America is too young and in many ways not distinct enough from British culture... its importance in the 20th century would, however, mean that its absence would be very conspicuous. Native America runs into issues related to permanent settlings, unified leadership etc; I suppose the developer felt casting them as Barbarians would be in bad taste, even though that would have been the most sensible course in-game.

 

[ICNP]

Wow 5 votes for Carthage. That's harsh. Carthage is a deserving civ in my mind even though Rome wipes them off the face of the Earth.

But Really putting Persia on the list and leaving off the Mongols is kinda weird. Same goes for Japan and America.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Calling Germany Prussia would be like calling the US Texas - or at least, similar, if not to the same degree.

What's wrong with that?

 

[Wolfshanze]

The HRE, while heavily intertwined with the history of Germany, can't be entirey attached to being "just a phase". Its unique political and social make-up and, like the US, its enormous economic, cultural, religous, and military influence means it can't be left out, even if its not technically a civilization. The same can be said about Austria, even if its a feudal state then nation rather than a "civilization".

I easily voted HRE without thinking twice. The game is called "Civilization"... before you even open the box, you've already ruled-out the HRE... because it wasn't a "Civilization", anymore then NATO, the Warsaw Pact or the United Nations is a Civilization. The HRE was a series of treaties and pacts between different kingdoms and principalities... it was not a Civilization, it was a system of pacts. The very fact the cities it's granted in-game are the exact same cities that compose of Germany and Austria is just the final nail in the coffin. It's neither Germany, nor Austria... it's not any nation or ethnic group, and it's certainly not a civilization. It's just some pacts and treaties slapped together... it's the medieval equivalent of NATO. It's not a Civ... and the very fact it dissolved into it's base-civ... aka: Austria... is very telling as well. Firaxis should have just skipped HRE and did the right thing... include Austria... a real Civ.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

Next time just include all options, it doesnt make much sence to me to make a poll and just include the options you think are right.

Unfortunately as I posted before, the poll only allows 25 options.

And I still can't believe people would vote for the U.S. though, that's just biased.

If the poll had allowed 30 options, I would have put the following on the poll:

Mongolia
India
Spain
France
America



Sadly it only allows 25.

 

[Onagan]

And I still can't believe people would vote for the U.S. though, that's just biased.

That's because you're a American

 

[Wolfshanze]

That's because you're a American

The same bias can be said for most Europeans thinking the US doesn't deserve to be called a "Civilization"... It's very popular to be anti-American these days!

 

[Balderstrom]

I thought HRE was added primarily for one of the Scenario/Mods.

It seems like there would be less debate about which CIVs should be included - if the game allowed for a very simple option, an HTML-like menu/List of all the CIVs that allows for SHIFT & CTRL select of the CIVs in the list, along with saving your list as a Favorite/Preference.

1) The selected CIVs in your List will be the ones chosen at Random for your game.
2) If you have less CIVs selected in your list than are set for the MAP, it will error and require you to select more.

As far as I know, all we can do atm is custom-edit XML to allow for X-CIVs, or to manually select which CIVs you want in your game. Neither of those are optimal.

 

[viz]

Civ is about re-writing history not imitating it so I voted for every nation to be represented.

 

[Ammar]

The same bias can be said for most Europeans thinking the US doesn't deserve to be called a "Civilization"... It's very popular to be anti-American these days!

True enough, but it's just as popular to be outraged over the terrible anti-American bias all the time. Nowadays you can't really have an opinion about *anything* the US does without being attacked by one of the two-sides.

If you criticize anything at all you are called a raving anti-american and if you think they did something right you get flak from the other side.

 

[Stoney the I]

If you criticize anything at all you are called a raving anti-american and if you think they did something right you get flak from the other side.

very true

so lets all join in one supernation, vote me supreme leader an be done with it

forgive me, im drunk

It's very popular to be anti-American these days!

thats not a recent development i think

 

[Balderstrom]

Just be pro-Canadian and be done with it ;-)

 

[The Fishman]

Is there really any point in this discussion? Doesn't Firaxis just put in whoever is well-known? Its not as if there is any real definition of a Civilisation anyway, so why spend all your time going on about whether Celts are 'barabarians' or not?

 

[Stoney the I]

so why spend all your time going on about whether Celts are 'barabarians' or not?

its interesting to see the view on this from people around the world.

why start a civ game and abandon it when you win or loose and start a new one all over again?

its fun!!

so is this imho.

jameson said:

After all, what have the Romans ever done for us ?

Life of brian?

 

[Dryhad]

could have something to do with the fact yr an american
offcourc yr a bit biassed (if thats how you spell it)
I would be to towards netherlands. I thinks thats healthy, not a bad thing.

Harumph. I'm Australian and I don't think Australia ought to be in the game. It's all about stepping back and seeing the big picture.

But yes, add me to the America votes. Actually, come to think of it Germany suffers many of the same problems, unless you consider it Prussia (and BTW, it's not like calling America Texas, that would be like calling Germany Bavaria. It's probably closer to calling all Americans "Yankees"). Still, though, are there any other civilisations that are exclusively "colonies" (in the BTS sense)?

 

[Stoney the I]

Still, though, are there any other civilisations that are exclusively "colonies"

Thats a great sidestep thats on topic.
america is the only one i can think of, but im a science dude, not a history buff. other in the forum will have more to say on it i hope.

a lot of civs in the game come from civs that existed earlier in history (germany, byzantines, dutch, etc) but civs that were colonies... they should be least deserving imho. colony days are just a couple of centuries ago.

 

[EweezE]

America is too young and in many ways not distinct enough from British culture...

Not distinct enough!? Kicking the crap out of the Brits and declaring our independence from its tyranny more than earns us the right to be in the game. You must be a foreigner. Go build a bomb and pull off a gutless terrorist attack against us. That's all any anti-American activists can ever hope to be successful at. If America stopped leading the World on the "main stage" and took a more passive role, than it (the World) would plummet right back into war. And I don't think you want to be anti-American then.....

 

[frekk]

Not distinct enough!? Kicking the crap out of the Brits and declaring our independence from its tyranny more than earns us the right to be in the game. You must be a foreigner. Go build a bomb and pull off a gutless terrorist attack against us. That's all any anti-American activists can ever hope to be successful at.

Yikes, you know this is just a game right? All we're talking about is whether the US (among others!) has endured long enough and been distinct enough to be included. None of us here are building any bombs, and there is no nefarious global conspiracy uniting the entire planet against you. Iranon's statement was a far, far cry from anything you should even be taking slight offense at, let alone start raving like a lunatic about "anti-Americanism" and "gutless terrorists".

Sometimes I think certain Americans (you know who you are) and their Islamic counterparts (you know who you are, too) are made for each other, complete fanatics with no sense or reason, always ready to cry persecution at the drop of a hat, just so that everyone will indulge & appease them.

Also you left out the rest of what he said, probably because your outburst would sound even more insane if you included it: "America is too young and in many ways not distinct enough from British culture... its [America's] importance in the 20th century would, however, mean that its absence would be very conspicuous."

 

[Balderstrom]

Though it would be interesting if there were a limited number of Civilizations to choose from at the beginning of time (4000 BC) and after you have attained X-number of cities or a certain Technological advancement or a given point in Time: 0AD, 1000AD etc - You go thru a revolution and become a new CIV. Perhaps it would require you to of taken over a number of foreign cities...

I haven't played RevolutionMod, but I believe it is more about CIVIL unrest and your civ breaking apart, than growing towards a new age/empire.

 

[EweezE]

Also you left out the rest of what he said

Thanks for being so observant. Did you know, you left out the tail end of my post when you quoted me as well . Maybe you'd have a similar attitude if you had to read through anti-Wherever-you're-from posts. Or, maybe you'd lack the patriotism..