The Macedonian Naming Dispute

[_random_]

We greeks are nationalist and i like it. Because we defend our history and also we have a history.

300 spartans faced 1.000.000 persians.

And lost, albeit with a good deal of dignity, after which Persia continued to ravage the rest of Greece. Not to mention that while there were 300 Spartans, they had plenty of support from other cities.

Alexander the great created a huge greek empire.

Alexander was a barbarian with a cultural fetish, no more Greek than people who watch BBC America all day are English.

Byzantium was a greek orthodox empire.

Ruled at various times by Iconoclasts and Monophysites.

Besides, the modern Greek state has no direct connection to any of the above events. I don't know enough about modern Greek history to talk about the latter two, but modern Greek individuals have no connection to them, so it's really pointless to take pride in them.

 

[NovaKart]

Are you sure that at least part of it wasn't in the FYROM? Either way I think it's a really petty issue that's mostly inspired by Greek nationalists going on about how great they are.

It reminds me of how some people in Greece were threatening to sue Oliver Stone over the Alexander movie for portraying him as bisexual. Does Greece own Alexander the Great? Can you own the rights to a historical figure and how they are portrayed? If a European wants to make a movie about George Washington and depict him as a laudinum addict with hippo ivory dentures does America have a right to sue over that?

 

[Arakhor]

We greeks are nationalist and i like it. Because we defend our history and also we have a history.

You're welcome to thank the British Empire for the Ionian islands and for ratifying your independence in the 1830 London Protocol.

 

[christos200]

Alexander was a barbarian with a cultural fetish, no more Greek than people who watch BBC America all day are English.

Alexander the great was greek.

 

[christos200]

You're welcome to thank the British Empire for the Ionian islands and for ratifying your independence in the 1830 London Protocol.

Thank you UK.

 

[Akka]

I propose to re-establish the Byzantine Empire, and let Greece annex the Balkans and Turkey.

 

[christos200]

I propose to re-establish the Byzantine Empire, and let Greece annex the Balkans and Turkey.

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[aronnax]

We greeks are nationalist and i like it. Because we defend our history and also we have a history

Honestly, you have as much in common with the Greeks of the ancient times as I do with the Zhou Dynasty.

300 spartans faced 1.000.000 persians.

Now, I have an almost non-existence knowledge of Ancient Greek History, but even I know that those 300 Spartans had like another 10,000 other Greek soldiers with them and 1,000,000 is way too high. Your typical Atlantis proportions of Greek historians. It was probably like 100,000. I even doubt that still.

Alexander the great created a huge greek empire.

The only Greek part of Alexander's Macedon Empire was Greece. Sure, a couple of Greek statues got to India, but Alexander's Empire was anything but Greek.

Byzantium was a greek orthodox empire.

Is Greek the right word?

Papaflesas fought at 1825 with 300 soldiers against 6.000 turks.

Don't know anything about this.

At ww2 greece was the first country to have won the axis on land.

Congratulations! Your country managed to beat back Italians before being ruthlessly conquered by Germany. Woohoo!

 

[_random_]

Alexander the great was greek.

Only in the sense that he was born in the area that would become part of the modern day Republic of Greece. His contemporaries from Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Delphi, and other objectively Greek cities wouldn't have identified him as such, and I don't see why I should consider you to be a better judge of Greekness than they, or why establishing Greekness really matters in terms of a man who died 2300 years ago.

 

[Kyriakos]

Christo, no reason to do battle with these non-greeks Instead come play civIII where the greek diaspora is strong.

As for the Macedonian name issue, no, no one here fears that fyrom will attack us (with what? their army is not even 1/20 of the greek one, let alone its ancient technology, they might as well use sarissae) but there is a worry that fyrom as a country will nto exist in a few years due to albanian nationalism inside it, and then a lot of immigrants might flee to Greece, which reallydoes not need more problems to deal with.

First and last post in this thread, and i hope the mods will keep an eye on it for it started as bad as it continued.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

He may be Greek but do you own him? You act like you have a patent on Macedonia and Alexander.

 

[christos200]

Christo, no reason to do battle with these non-greeks Instead come play civIII where the greek diaspora is strong.

As for the Macedonian name issue, no, no one here fears that fyrom will attack us (with what? their army is not even 1/20 of the greek one, let alone its ancient technology, they might as well use sarissae) but there is a worry that fyrom as a country will nto exist in a few years due to albanian nationalism inside it, and then a lot of immigrants might flee to Greece, which reallydoes not need more problems to deal with.

First and last post in this thread, and i hope the mods will keep an eye on it for it started as bad as it continued.

To all non greeks: Macedonia is greek and i dont care what you say.End of this thread.

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[Silurian]

But they dont live in the place ancient macedonia was. They live near but not in the place ancient macedonia was.

Do you believe that ancient Macedonia was mainly in the Modern Greek provinces of Macedonia.

 

[aronnax]

Can someone tell me why Greek people are so quick to claim Ancient Greek culture as part of their heritage and culture when the two groups share absolutely nothing in common aside from the peninsula they reside in and a common root language?

EDIT: And possibly some genetic relation.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

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[civ-addicted]

To all non greeks: Macedonia is greek and i dont care what you say.End of this thread.

Wait, what? You suddenly decided to not care if there is someone out there who doesn't think that ancient Macedons were Greeks?
What a shame, this thread was really entertaining

 

[_random_]

Is Greek the right word?

Not really. Byzantines would have identified themselves as Romans, and they were a political continuation of the Roman Empire. That's not to say that they weren't heavily influenced by Ancient Greek culture or that they weren't a heavy influence on Modern Greek culture, but these things alone don't make them Greek.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

There is no controversy but the fabricated. The modern Macedonians are a modern Slavic ethnic group that now live in the region, but have no ethnic connection to the ancient Macedonians, that are indistinguishable today from modern Greeks. The Name War is a ludicrous confrontation by nationalistic Greece, which appears to have nothing better to do.

 

[Silurian]

The name is a cover for the main problem.

From Wiki

Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from GreeceThe Exodus of ethnic Macedonians from Greece[5][6] (Macedonian: Егзодус на етничките Македонци од Грција, Egzodus na etničkite Makedonci od Grcija) refers to the thousands of Macedonians who were evacuated, fled or expelled during the Greek Civil War in the years 1945 to 1949, many of whom fled to avoid persecution.[2][3][4] Although these refugees have been classed as political refugees there have been claims that they were also targeted due to their ethnic and cultural identities. Many Slavomacedonians had sided with the KKE which in 1934 had expressed its intent to "fight for the national self-determination of the repressed Slavomacedonians (ethnic group)"[23] and after the KKE passed a resolution at its Fifth Plenum on 31 January 1949 in which "after the KKE victory, the Slavic Macedonians would find their national restoration within a united Greek state".[16.................................

..........Exile from GreeceIn 1947 the legal act L-2 was issued. This meant that all people who had fought against the Greek government during the Greek Civil War and had left Greece would have their citizenship confiscated and were banned from returning to the country. On January 20, 1948 the legal act M was issued which allowed the Greek government to confiscate the property of those who were stripped of their citizenship.[29] This effectively had exiled the defeated KKE and its supporters who had left Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refuge..._War#Exodus_of_Ethnic_Macedonians_from_Greece

Greece wants Macedonia to stay out of the EU because it does not want the exiles to come back and light to be shone on the abuse of the Slavic speaking Macedonians who live in the Greek Macedonian provinces.

Added

Ethnic Map by Greek in 1918

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hellenism_in_the_Near_East_1918.jpg

 

[Leoreth]

Honestly, you have as much in common with the Greeks of the ancient times as I do with the Zhou Dynasty.

Can someone tell me why Greek people are so quick to claim Ancient Greek culture as part of their heritage and culture when the two groups share absolutely nothing in common aside from the peninsula they reside in and a common root language?

EDIT: And possibly some genetic relation.

We've been over this already (with christos suspiciously ignoring this angle): when your current country doesn't live up to your mouth-foaming nationalism, you take what you can get.

It's funny because the Greeks basically do the same thing as those Macedonians (I refuse to consider Fyrom even a word).

Congratulations! Your country managed to beat back Italians before being ruthlessly conquered by Germany. Woohoo!

Yeah, you know your history sucks when you have to start bragging about defeating Italians.