The Machinations of Sirona

[vorshlumpf]

Hi all,

I'm looking for ideas for my D&D campaign again. Specifically, ideas surrounding Sirona and her agenda.

One of the player's has decided to multi-class. His character, an Elohim noble, has already been a devout follower of Sirona, so he's decided to become a paladin in her name. She is the goddess of Wisdom, but it seems her 'good' nature and veneration by the compassionate Elohim have made her a goddess of mercy to some degree. Result, a NG Paladin of Mercy who follows Sirona.

I'm trying to follow the Wisdom angle (foresight), and fit mercy in by calling it an act of foresight to be merciful (in most cases).

Any comments on this?

Now, what is Sirona's agenda? Is it merely to counter the machinations of the evil gods? I don't like that. Junil is a good example of trying to impose his will upon the world. What would Sirona impose? I'm at a bit of a DM's block on this one.

Thoughts?

- Niilo

P.S.: Hmm, I can't find anything about the god she would specifically oppose. Was there a list somewhere?

 

[vorshlumpf]

I guess I have to be careful about the foresight thing, since Mammon was originally the angel of foresight.

Also, looking at the gods and their spheres, and comparing that to the mana chart, Sirona (Spirit) would oppose Aeron (Body). However, it doesn't look like the mana chart is a correct representation of the opposing Good/Evil gods.

 

[Algeroth]

However, it doesn't look like the mana chart is a correct representation of the opposing Good/Evil gods.

That's because there are no opposing pairs of gods. If i understand it correctly, that after "No Princess Rule" comes "We Hate Symmery With Passion" desing rule.

IMO Siroa oposes Mammon and Aeron and meddle with Esus. And probably fight aganist ceridwen too.

 

[smjjames]

Actually there was Bhall and Mulcarn who opposed each other, but that was more like the way summer and winter oppose each other because fire represents the heat of the summer and ice represents the cold of winter. So, really it's more of a natural opposing combination there.

The gods did have opposing pairs of good/evil after the compact, but with the fall of Bhall, the coming of Mulcarn and the death of Sucellus, this went all out of whack and probably out the window.

 

[Ekolite]

No all gods are opposed by another god if iirc. I think each good god opposes an evil god.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, but Sirona is a good god(dess). Her nemesis was Aeron. Basically all the oppositions were because the spheres were opposite (heat/cold, Creation/Entropy, Spirit/Flesh). This isn't to say that the gods don't have some other enemies apart from their main opponent though.

 

[Sofista]

That's because there are no opposing pairs of gods. If i understand it correctly, that after "No Princess Rule" comes "We Hate Symmery With Passion" desing rule.

IMO Siroa oposes Mammon and Aeron and meddle with Esus. And probably fight aganist ceridwen too.

Sorry for the unrelated question: what's the princess rule?

 

[MrUnderhill]

IIRC, it's "don't include anything that could be found on a poster in a 10-year-old girl's bedroom."
Basically, since FFH is dark fantasy, and the basic idea is that nobody's perfect, there should never be any examples of "pure" good or evil (as there often are in traditional fantasy). For example, unicorns, typically portrayed as symbols of purity, are strictly off the list.

 

[Fenboy]

Sorry for the unrelated question: what's the princess rule?

They really need to put this in the FAQ. Its something along the lines of "nothing that could appear on a little girl's bedroom wall (unicorns, fairies, princesses) has any place in our dark & angsty game world"

edit: curse you MrUnderhill! ninja'd!

 

[Sofista]

Thank you both!

 

[vorshlumpf]

Yes, but Sirona is a good god(dess). Her nemesis was Aeron. Basically all the oppositions were because the spheres were opposite (heat/cold, Creation/Entropy, Spirit/Flesh). This isn't to say that the gods don't have some other enemies apart from their main opponent though.

I like the idea of Sirona having issues with Mammon, since she represents wisdom and he represents the corruption of foresight.

I'm still having trouble grasping her overall agenda, though. Junil? Easy - Law and Order throughout the lands; everything in its place and a place for everything.

The embodiment of wisdom... Eschewing all emotional impulses? It's our emotions (like hate and passion) that distract us from using our wisdom.

- Niilo

 

[Kael]

Sirona is the least active of the gods, it makes her the most difficult imagine active roles for. I usually represent her followers very close to buddhist monks, passive, not confrontational. She is a goddess of wisdom, peace, temperence and harmony.

Since D&D is so combat focused its going to be hard to fit those ideals on a player character. The closest match would be a monk who refuses to use weapons and uses non-lethal martial arts to fight.

I had a character in one campaign who was a peculiar brand of pacifist. He worshipped Sucellus but the concept could be similiar. He was a paladin with a holy sword. The sword was very powerful but he never used it against living victims. He was a demon and undead fighter, and if that sword came unsheathed it was time for a real fight. For the rest of encounters he had non-lethal spells and moves to participate (disarm, shield rush and such).

For that to work you would have to be running a very undead/demon intensive campaign. More normal events would have to be adjusted for him. For example a typical adventure of capturing and killing a werewolf hunting in farming lands would instead turn into a process to get a ritual to cure lycanthropy, then capturing and performing the ritual on the trapped werewolf. In my mind it makes for a more interesting adventure, with additional reward if the cured werewolf is reunited with his family, thanks the party, etc.

The other option is to allow the paladin to use the detect evil ability to differentiate between those that can be killed and those that cant. Lethal forse would never be used on neutral bandits, lizardmen and such. Only on the truely depraved.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Hmm, yeah, that will be difficult. Especially since paladins exemplify their religion so much that they won't associate with those that oppose it - this would mean any act of killing done by the party would potentially cause contention.

I'll have to talk it over with my player. My campaign, though D&D yes, is heavy on the mental challenges and light on the physical, so it might work out anyway.

Thanks for the awesome insight, Kael. I especially love the idea for detect evil - I was looking for a suitable replacement for it and I think I'll use that idea.

- Niilo

 

[vorshlumpf]

I was also thinking of having Aeron trying to mess with the situation. The PC in question is going to have many reasons to succumb to anger and thoughts of revenge. For one, Bannor inquisitors will be arresting his family at the beginning of the next session, and the arrest is going to go horribly wrong.

It may be a stretch, but perhaps Aeron is trying to corrupt the PC's devotion to Sirona. I don't want to mess with my PC's too much, though - a lot of that has already happened

 

[Fenboy]

*coughvampireslotsofvampirescough*

As for Kael's comments above, using a quick detect evil against random mooks before smiting should really be S.O.P for a decently rp'ing paladin, but then again those involved in banditry probably aren't very nice people

It strikes me that one of the primary focuses of the Elohim is the redemption of evil-doers. Let the Bannor, Mercurians & Malakim run around smiting everything within reach, the job of the Elohite is to bring their enemies around to their way of thinking.

/sorry if this post doesn't make much sense, but it is very late & I'm very tired

 

[Mewtarthio]

I've heard that the supplement The Book of Exalted Deeds has a class called the "Apostle of Peace" centered around nonviolence.

 

[Algeroth]

Sirona is the least active of the gods, it makes her the most difficult imagine active roles for.

You mean from the good gods, or from the gods overall? It's hard to imagine that she's less active than Arwan or the godess of Air. What she do anyway? IIRC there was plea in some other thread for more info on her, but noone answered.

 

[Kael]

You mean from the good gods, or from the gods overall? It's hard to imagine that she's less active than Arwan or the godess of Air. What she do anyway? IIRC there was plea in some other thread for more info on her, but noone answered.

Yeah, I thought about Arawn after I wrote that. He is certainly completly absent from creation so you are right that he probably wins that prize.

Tali is the sky god and he's not inactive at all. He the patron god of explorers, travelers and storms. He is likely to cause trouble as find a clever way out of it. He is very chaotic and opposed by Kilmorph, where she values tradition he abhors it, prefering to act freely in the moment. His temples would be cool if his worshippers could sit still long enough to build one. An occasional shrine in remote, hard to reach places is about as close as they get. He is a trickster god, though not nearly as hurtful as Esus.

 

[Mewtarthio]

So, the real reason that Tali doesn't appear very often in the 'pedia is that he's more subtle than the others? Or is he just an annoying prankster who doesn't have a hand in any major decisions?

 

[evanb]

Tali is male?! I always thought of this angel as female. Maybe I was under the influence of indian Kali. And yes, as the previous poster said, what's up with him?