The Most Moddable Civilization ever....apparently isn't that moddable.

[SevenSpirits]

this thread is a sham

whatever page 50,000 is about you all need to understand that modding is OPEN

(almost) anything you want to do is available
*current limitations: diplomacy deals

anything else, learn to use the live tuner and type in the code, TADA

and here's a bit of news: if you can type the code in the tuner, you can have the game automaticaly type it in for you! wow! civ5 is so amazingly open who would believe it.

There are many things that aren't moddable right now. If you can't think of any, you're just not using your imagination. Changing XML values and adding scripts can change gameplay significantly but that's just scratching the surface of actual modding.

 

[fed1943]

Dale:
Not sure if I understood.
There is the game and the program, right?
A tester must be good at the game, the program, or both?
Or my question is not aplicable because knowledge of program is required to be a good player?
My thanks in advance.

 

[Dale]

Dale:
Not sure if I understood.
There is the game and the program, right?
A tester must be good at the game, the program, or both?
Or my question is not aplicable because knowledge of program is required to be a good player?
My thanks in advance.

2K testers are just generic testers who make sure the program does as advertised and do hardware testing. The Franky group has always analysed design and in-game concepts that are specifically Civ, and provided feedback.

 

[Dale]

There are many things that aren't moddable right now. If you can't think of any, you're just not using your imagination. Changing XML values and adding scripts can change gameplay significantly but that's just scratching the surface of actual modding.

Actually, the game is completely moddable (except two things which has a third party license attached to it). The tools aren't working, that's all.

 

[SevenSpirits]

Actually, the game is completely moddable (except two things which has a third party license attached to it). The tools aren't working, that's all.

That seems awfully pedantic.

Windows is completely moddable too, you just have to edit the binary correctly and it will do anything.

I admit I haven't checked the limits of the Lua (I'd rather work in C++) but I doubt it would be practical to implement, say, Civ IV right now. And that is a pretty similar game, relatively speaking.

 

[Meeber]

Any modder that gives up on modding a game because the mod tools are not perfect at launch quite simply isn't really a modder. And honestly, I haven't seen one person claim that they were giving up, but I have seen a lot of people claim that they're done until the C++ SDK and/or Lua documentation come out. This is pretty standard in every game, and certainly every Civ game. And you've only seen "half baked, mini mods" because the games only been out a month, and those epic mods like RFC and FFH can take upwards of a year to make. I agree with whoever earlier claimed that most of the people complaining are not modders. It seems like a lot of fans heard "most moddable Civ ever" and expected to have a bunch of mods that were better than the best of CIV immediately, which is just ridiculous. Can anyone point to a single, substantial mod for any game ever that was out within a month of release?

Well I'm not a modder but I do want to create my own senarios, maps, and CIVs without having to learn a programming language. And I would like a user friendly tool to do it in. However I can't use mod buddy because the Visual Studios 10 that it requres to be loaded does not see the ModBuddy (or vis versa actully) when I launch it. Yes I can create maps in world builder and I even like it but there are features that don't work like Encampments placed on the map don't generate barbarians even with Enraging babarians is checked. And I can't create maps for multiplayer games which is a big let down as I play a lot of SP and MP.
Also even though I can name a unit in WB I can't name a unit in the game unless it gains a level. I don't know about you guys but in previous CIV's I named most of my units escpecially the ships. And even when you name them in CIV 5 the other players in a MP game can't see the name. For me this is a blow to the immersion factor.

 

[factorial]

That seems awfully pedantic.

Windows is completely moddable too, you just have to edit the binary correctly and it will do anything.

I admit I haven't checked the limits of the Lua (I'd rather work in C++) but I doubt it would be practical to implement, say, Civ IV right now. And that is a pretty similar game, relatively speaking.

If the moddability of the game is determined by how well the tools work, then CiV is infinitely more moddable than any other Civ, since it's the only one with any proper tools released by the developer.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Can anyone point to a single, substantial mod for any game ever that was out within a month of release?

I gotta answer this metaphor of a post, if i could - would you please?

Not to be silly or outright nasty, even a bit self-absorbed... i DID make a huge mod for the GC2-Dark Avatar expansion within that very same first few weeks of a game release.

Have a good look at this stuff -- X-Worlds!


As for the initial threading subject... i'm more of a wait-and-see-you-may-just-get-what-you-need type of modder when it comes to such newly created game(s) by whomever.
Sure, Firaxis *HAD* to rush it out the gates of distribution to (probably) meet 2K contracted expectations and by doing so left many things incomplete or lacking polished work but, are you all absolutely cranked up to simply give up on modding your great ideas and beautiful addons to a game you still "love"?

Real modders, never ever give up on something or anything. Cuz, that's exactly what they live for.
Lucky us -- free stuff, btw.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Like anything in the computing sector, you can choose TWO of these three things:
- Quality
- Cheap
- Fast

Sic, one only -- Quality + Quality + Quality!!!

No matter how, no matter when, no matter who.

As i recall my personal carreer in "sales" (Lumber & construction stuff for high-end contractors, btw); an unsatisfied customer outright cuts the potential for a 100 more... and a single satisfied brings in 10 new ones.

Just saying...

 

[smellymummy]

There are many things that aren't moddable right now. If you can't think of any, you're just not using your imagination. Changing XML values and adding scripts can change gameplay significantly but that's just scratching the surface of actual modding.

no, it's the other way around, lack of imagination to solve the problem of applying a modification someone wants to do. just hiding behind a broad statement of modding sucks and people who claim otherwise lacks imagination is pretty weak in proving your point btw, please do provide examples of the huge list of what can not be done with the current game mechanics and i'll gladly look over them

 

[SevenSpirits]

no, it's the other way around, lack of imagination to solve the problem of applying a modification someone wants to do. just hiding behind a broad statement of modding sucks and people who claim otherwise lacks imagination is pretty weak in proving your point btw, please do provide examples of the huge list of what can not be done with the current game mechanics and i'll gladly look over them

Calm down, I didn't say modding sucks. I said many things aren't moddable yet.

I didn't give any examples because I don't know everything that's currently doable in lua and I didn't think my statement needed any support. I do know that every single mechanic I want to add is effectively unaddable because I can't teach the AI about it yet. Here's one really simple example: techs that cost culture.

 

[smellymummy]

I can't teach the AI about it yet. Here's one really simple example: techs that cost culture.

you're right without the source you can not make a tech require culture to be picked.

however, you can force the AI to follow this rule, and you can change the UI to not allow a human player to chose a tech if the culture (or whatever) requirement isn't met

 

[poncratias]

I can't believe that there are actually people claiming " WTH you can mod what ever you want, everything is possible, there are no limitations etc"


It's NOT !



I doubt any of them really went into the modding deep enough.
Well yeah, you can mod your xml stuff and the lua thingies, BUT here it ends!
It is NOT possible to make f.e. new Landmarks, new wonders,new terrain improvements, new graphic art, change artdefine stuff like the size of buildings etc.

Why? Not only because the mod tools don't pick them up, but also because the whole system for them doesn'T even get streamed into the database but is hardcoded, which means they didn't even build the binaries in any way that it could be possible to mod those stuff!
The Code in the core files itself just isn't made in any way that it could be possible to mod!!!


This is just food for the sheep, yeah do your xml modding, change the strength of your units and be fascinated about ur mods.

that's what they want you to do.
but not more.

 

[SevenSpirits]

you're right without the source you can not make a tech require culture to be picked.

however, you can force the AI to follow this rule, and you can change the UI to not allow a human player to chose a tech if the culture (or whatever) requirement isn't met

Well, thanks for telling me I guess, though I hope you realize that it's not actually helpful for implementing that. Anyway that's a pretty simple rule change which doesn't even use a single concept that's new to Civ V, it's just mixing two old ones. I hope you can see that there many possible ideas that can't be modded right now.

 

[Vordeo]

It is NOT possible to make f.e. new Landmarks, new wonders,new terrain improvements, new graphic art, change artdefine stuff like the size of buildings etc.

Er.... might want to take a look at the customization forum there.

 

[SevenSpirits]

Er.... might want to take a look at the customization forum there.

Oh cool, I actually thought that stuff was still impossible too. (Though it's not as immediately important to me.) Could you point me to where people have figured it out?

 

[pazmacats]

Sonereal, you forgot to include that half of the modding tools are broken and Lemmy had to fix them and CommanderZ to expand them to make them acutally useful.

why should the modding part be better than the rest of this software-desaster?

 

[Vordeo]

Oh cool, I actually thought that stuff was still impossible too. (Though it's not as immediately important to me.) Could you point me to where people have figured it out?

Which ones, exactly? I mean, AFAIK you can make new wonders, natural wonders, etc. with just XML (though pics will be reused).

Some of the guys on the customization forums have found out how to make new units, reskin graphics, and import civ4 units into CiV, amongst other things.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=392985
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=392773
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=394056

Check out this forum for more stuff.

It's pretty complicated, and hopefully things get easier once Firaxis gets around to upgrading mod tools, but it can be done. Even recall seeing a thread where some guys are making new leaderheads, though those looked a fair distance from completion.

 

[gingerbill]

I think the people using elemental as an example to CIV5 are laughable , elemental was a disgrace at launch , i would keep quite about it. You couldnt pick a worse recent example than elemental.

Personally for new people to modding CIV5 has been the best , i've made a mod and i have never dreamed of making one for previous civs . And being able to download and manage them ingame is great. I dont see a problem in having to wait 6 months to get all the tools , nothing unusal about that.

 

[Zen Blade]

I agree with Vordeo, I think Poncratias is just wrong.

A lot of things are being worked out by the modding community. You can introduce all sorts of elements to the game, we just weren't given the manual with the Civ 5 that we bought back in September.

This being said, it is clear that the graphics (art) are clearly a big problem and some various successful Civ IV modders are having a difficult time, which means I have not even attempted to start thinking about approaching graphics. Right now, everything (for me) is "use Civ 5 graphics/art", while I change values, names, stats, etc... but you can change a lot of crap.

Right now, I am trying to get some better balance between units/cities (and AI) to get better/more realistic sieges.