The Muslim response to the Pope remarks finds its inevitable expression

[aneeshm]

Lovely how everything of this sort follows the same pattern , doesn't it ?

First the rioting , then the justification for the rioting from Western intellectualls , then the death threats , and the resultant deafening silence from Western intellectualls .

Clerics say , "Kill him" . . . . . .

Kill Pope, says Lashkar fatwa

October 03, 2006

The Markaz-ud-Dawa, the political wing of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba, is reported to have issued a fatwa calling upon Muslims to kill Pope Benedict XVI for his September 12 speech, which has been projected as anti-Islam by Al Qaeda and other jihadi terrorist organisations.

The Markaz was acting on behalf of the International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Crusaders and the Jewish People, which is headed by Osama bin Laden.

The issue of the fatwa came a few days before the latest video message by Osama's deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri, in which he made a severe attack on the Pope.

A report on the the fatwa, carried by the Pakistani journal Ausaf in its September 18 edition, says: 'Pakistan's Jamaat-ud-Dawa has issued a fatwa asking the Muslim community to kill Pope Benedict for his blasphemous statement about Prophet Mohammad.

'The Jamaat-ud-Dawa has declared death to Pope Benedict and said that in today's world blasphemy of the Holy Koran and the Prophet has become a fashion. The leaders of the Jamaat were speaking at a Martyrs' Islamic Conference in Karachi. Prominent Jamaat leader Hafiz Saifullah Khalid said that in the present circumstances, jihad has become obligatory for each Muslim. Muslims are being declared terrorists and our battle for survival has already started. The Muslim world has rejected the Pope's apology and decided to continue protests and demonstrations in big cities.

'The Pope's apology is just a drama and no political leader has any power to pardon him. It is part of a crusade initiated by the US in the name of terrorism. Instead of accepting fake apologies, Muslims should realise Europe's enmity towards Islam and Muslim Ummah should prepare itself to defend its faith. Jamaat-ud-Dawa leader Hafiz Abdur Rahman Makki said the West and Europe have started a campaign against the Holy Koran and the Prophet and have abused jihad. We should take appropriate steps to deal with the champions of crusade. It is time for Muslim leaders to open their eyes and understand that the West had never been a friend of the Muslims and will never be so,' it concludes.

In his video message disseminated through the Internet on September 29, al-Zawahiri called Pope Benedict XVI a 'charlatan' and stated that the Pope 'accused Islam of being incompatible with rationality while forgetting that his own Christianity is unacceptable to a sensible mind.'

The Lashkar has secret cells in the United Kingdom and France, but there is no confirmed information of any activity in Italy so far. It is likely that the task of executing this fatwa might be entrusted to one of its cells in the UK or France.

The US State Department categorises the Markaz-ud-Dawa as well as the Lashkar as terrorist organisations. But Pakistan's President General Pervez Musharraf has rejected this, saying the Markaz-ud-Dawa has nothing to do with the Lashkar, and that it is an Islamic charity organisation which has been doing humanitarian relief work in Pakistan.

The media had recently reported that a move in the UN Security Council to order the freezing of the accounts of the Markaz-ud-Dawa under Security Council Resolution 1373 failed because of Chinese opposition. According to the media, China supported Pakistan's contention that the Markaz-ud-Dawa is not a terrorist organisation.


B Raman

. . . . . . . and Muslims in the UK agree

Muslims in UK demand capital punishment for Pope

September 18, 2006 17:39 IST

A day after Pope Benedict XVI apologised over his remarks against Islam, a Muslim leader in the United Kingdom has stated that the Pope should 'face execution' for his comments.

"Those who insulted Islam should be subject to capital punishment," Anjem Choudary told demonstrators who were protesting outside Westminster Cathedral in London on Monday.

He said, "Muslims take their religion very seriously and non-Muslims must appreciate their religious sentiments, and must also understand that there may be serious consequences if you insult Islam and the Prophet."

Demonstrators held placards saying: 'Pope, Go to Hell, Trinity of Evil: Western Crusade against Islam.'

Choudary said, "Whoever insults the message of Mohammed is going to be subject to capital punishment. I am here to have a peaceful demonstration. But there may be people in Italy or other parts of the world who will carry that out. I think that warning needs to be understood by all people who want to insult Islam and the Prophet."

However, a spokesman of the Scotland Yard said, "We have had no complaints about this. There were around 100 people at the demonstration. It passed off peacefully and there were no arrests."

Larger Islamic groups in Britain however, said they accepted the Pope's apology. Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain said, "The Vatican has moved quickly to deal with the hurt and we accept that. It was something that should never have happened - words of that nature were always likely to cause dismay - and we believe some of the Pope's advisers may have been at fault over his speech."

Pope Benedict had on Sunday apologised over his remarks on Islam, saying he was 'deeply sorry' about the reaction and that medieval quotes he used on holy war did not reflect his personal views.

UNI

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

one thing that I find funny is the pope says Islam was spread thru violence and it is a violent religion. Muslim reaction:
I will kill you!!!

 

[C~G]

Lovely how everything of this sort follows the same pattern , doesn't it ?

First the rioting , then the justification for the rioting from Western intellectualls , then the death threats , and the resultant deafening silence from Western intellectualls .

Yeah it is.

Even though I think the model is something like muslim haters say how violent Islam as religion is and are waiting for someone to comdemn it aggressively, Pope says something stupid which is applaud by muslim haters but causes dismay in muslim world and also inexcusable actions in part of muslim communities which fuels the muslim haters further to say that their origiinal point of muslims being violent is true and they wait someone to comdemn it or even act more aggressively towards the issue...

Lovely pattern, eh?

 

[Mathilda]

Moderator Action: aneeshm - please clarify what you would like discussed here.

 

[Che Guava]

. . . . . . . and Muslims in the UK agree

yeah, all 100 of them

Silly rabbit, if you look for the worst in any group you will inevitiable find someone with terribly overzealous view. The only difference is that extremist muslims get all the press because everyone is terrified of them.

I'm sure if I looked hard enough, i could find 100 white britons who want to kill the pope too

 

[Rambuchan]

Is this the fifth, sixth, seventh or what thread on the subject?

I agree with Che and C~G.

 

[Truronian]

Why exactly are thee two people defined as the Muslim response? A slightly over-zealous title methinks.

 

[aneeshm]

Moderator Action: aneeshm - please clarify what you would like discussed here.

I outlined the pattern which is followed every time there happens something like this . That pattern , in my opinion , is flawed , and must be changed . Apologism must be thrown out the window . That is what the debate in this thread is about .

But a related question - is it necessary for every thread to have something to discuss , or are purely news threads , whose only intention is to bring something to the attention of the forum , allowed ?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

then the justification for the rioting from Western intellectualls

Show me.

 

[C~G]

I outlined the pattern which is followed every time there happens something like this . That pattern , in my opinion , is flawed , and must be changed . Apologism must be thrown out the window .

I agree just after the muslim haters and ultra-nationalists.

But a related question - is it necessary for every thread to have something to discuss , or are purely news threads , whose only intention is to bring something to the attention of the forum , allowed ?

Well, it's rather nice to have something to discuss than just bump out news and comment it by only with emotion and bias without any true base of argument or trying to explain your stand.

Such threads are often called troll threads.

 

[Mathilda]

I outlined the pattern which is followed every time there happens something like this . That pattern , in my opinion , is flawed , and must be changed . Apologism must be thrown out the window . That is what the debate in this thread is about .

The pattern?
The pattern that on this planet it's possible to find groups of people who react violently to anything?
Or the pattern that (from your quote):

Larger Islamic groups in Britain however, said they accepted the Pope's apology.

But a related question - is it necessary for every thread to have something to discuss , or are purely news threads , whose only intention is to bring something to the attention of the forum , allowed ?

Depends on the importance of the news and will be judged on case to case basis. Basically this is a discussion forum, so threads that encourage civil discussion are more likely to survive.

 

[CartesianFart]

I'd say that we must have more comprehensive politically correctness in our media for Islamic sensitivities.As long as journalist and intellectuals in the Muslim world take things out of context for thier own nefarious intentions,the regular guys in the Muslim world will still continue to be manipulated from demagouges.

 

[CruddyLeper]

aneeshm honestly beleives that Muslims have a hive behaviour.

Just like rats, eh?

Fvck you and all your prejudices.

No need to ban me Mathilde, I don't associate with bigots, I was leaving anyway. Bye.

Moderator Action: It's no bother - 7 days.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Katheryn]

yeah, all 100 of them

Silly rabbit, if you look for the worst in any group you will inevitiable find someone with terribly overzealous view. The only difference is that extremist muslims get all the press because everyone is terrified of them.

I'm sure if I looked hard enough, i could find 100 white britons who want to kill the pope too

That is what Van Gogh thought also. He was slain in the street.

 

[Che Guava]

That is what Van Gogh thought also. He was slain in the street.

Again, by *1* man. Can you really expect the entire muslim community to be held responsible for the actions of one fanatic?

 

[Katheryn]

Again, by *1* man. Can you really expect the entire muslim community to be held responsible for the actions of one fanatic?

The question comes down to where the 'one' fanatic gets his justification for his violent act.

Is it taught in the Koran?

Is it taught in the mosque?

Is it taught in the home?

Where do these extreme views come from? And how can it be refuted. Who will refute it? Some do, but they end up with death threats.

Possibly, before a mosque can receive a permit to teach morality to citizens, they should agree to keep their religion peaceful and nonpolitical.

 

[Che Guava]

I don't buy it.

I can use the writing on the back of a cereal box to justify murder if I really want to, that doesn't mean that Captain Crunch is responsible.

 

[C~G]

Or maybe it's in the genes

Intolerance towards those that hold different kind of genetic base.

No, even though that might be partly of an issue I think it's more about memetics rather than genetics.

We have our own memes and they have their own. Now we have to just get rid of their bad memes that causes this disturbing behaviour without destroying the whole construct of their meme pool.

(I might get fried by those that don't like the idea of "memetics". Doesn't bother me though.)

 

[Xenocrates]

A time travelling Bin Laden was responsible for the assassination attempt on the pope in 1981, not the KGB after all.

They shaved off their beards and bleached their skin to burn harry Potter books.

The death threats issued to the judge in the creationism/evolution case a few weeks ago also came from Muslims.

The bicycle bombs in Melegaon (India) on the 9th of September outside a Muslim Mosque were also carried out by Muslims.

It's really a Muslim sect that's responsible for the violence at Milwall matches.

They're a busy bunch aren't they?

 

[CartesianFart]

Possibly, before a mosque can receive a permit to teach morality to citizens, they should agree to keep their religion peaceful and nonpolitical.

Unfortunately not all Muslim nation-states is secular in their constitution such as Turkey.Which in fact have a good paradigm on how to prevent a political religious group (Islamic fundamentalism)of overtaking the government:

Article 14 Prohibition of Abuse of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms(1) None of the rights and freedoms embodied in the Constitution shall be exercised with the aim of violating the indivisible integrity of the State with its territory and nation, of endangering the existence of the Turkish State and Republic, of destroying fundamental rights and freedoms, of placing the government of the State under the control of an individual or a group of people, or establishing the hegemony of one social class over others, or creating discrimination on the basis of language, race, religion or sect, or of establishing by any other means a system of government based on these concepts and ideas.