The "Obama Had 4 Years, Stop Blaming Bush" thingy.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The recession ended in June 2009.

So what? The crap hit the fan while Bush had been in charge for quite a few years, so he's to blame.

I think that's rubbish by the way, just as rubbish as ...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Ok, maybe I misunderstood.
What was your point then? Care to clarify?

I already did once.

And this was my reward:

So, your point is... you didn't fix it, kochman, so don't expect him to... Brilliant, I must say.

Fool me once, you cannot be fooled again.

 

[DinoDoc]

So what? The crap hit the fan while Bush had been in charge for quite a few years, so he's to blame

I would argue the CRA and Bill Clinton's repeal of the Glass Stegall Act had more to do with it than Bush.

I think that's rubbish by the way, just as rubbish as ...

The date is the end of the recession. I fail to see why you declare a simple fact to be rubbish.

 

[Leoreth]

I would argue the CRA and Bill Clinton's repeal of the Glass Stegall Act had more to do with it than Bush.

I would argue that Reaganomics had more to do with it than Clinton. Come on, now bring FDR!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I would argue the CRA and Bill Clinton's repeal of the Glass Stegall Act had more to do with it than Bush.

But ... but ....

You quoted a post citing the sorry state of the economy during the Obama years, and that was proof Obama was to blame for the slow or non-recovery.

What is different with regard to Bush and the start of the recession? They meet the same requirements for your proof.


edit: 3-1

 

[kochman]

I already did once.

And this was my reward:


Fool me once, you cannot be fooled again.

You said... how would you fix it, to me, about ten times...

That was kind of lame.

 

[Ailedhoo]

I wish the US were following the UK's lead when it came to austerity.

No... you do not wish to follow our example. Trust me: I am a Brit. The cuts have been zealous to the point of not being ecomonic well.

The IMF has issued that the British ecomony is not in a good shape... with special notion to the cuts. Just a notion...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You said... how would you fix it, to me, about ten times...

That was kind of lame.

No, I asked: what should Obama have done?

If the answer is I don't know, as is mine, then you cannot state the Obama Administration failed. Mind you, you also cannot say Obama did everything he could have done. Because of the same reason: my answer is: I don't know.

And economic experts both praise and damn Obama for the decisions he made with regard to the economy, so they're not much help either.

But Europe plays a big part as well in influencing your economy, as does China. Not much Obama can do about that. The economy and the state of it doesn't stop at borders anymore.

Last time I've clarified.

 

[DinoDoc]

You quoted a post citing the sorry state of the economy during the Obama years, and that was proof Obama was to blame for the slow or non-recovery.

His policies haven't worked and their failiure is manifest in the fact that Obama lacks a record of economic sucess to run on. I don't believe in giving someone "more time" to continue failing.

 

[JollyRoger]

My stock portfolio says his policies have worked - so far as leading indicators go.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

His policies haven't worked and their failiure is manifest in the fact that Obama lacks a record of economic sucess to run on. I don't believe in giving someone "more time" to continue failing.

Gee, I don't notice you avoiding my question at all.

Blimey, you're a wily one.

 

[DinoDoc]

Bush isn't running and Mitt isn't Bush. So was I supposed to consider it of import?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Bush isn't running and Mitt isn't Bush. So was I supposed to consider it of import?

Really? That's it?

Nice.

You quoted a post citing the sorry state of the economy during the Obama years, and that was proof Obama was to blame for the slow or non-recovery.

What is different with regard to Bush and the start of the recession? They meet the same requirements for your proof.

Well Ziggy, Bush isn't running, so this is not important.

 

[DinoDoc]

Really? That's it?

Nice.

I figured this was where the unserious (given that he isn't running and voters already passed judgement on his term of office by electing the empty suit in the first place) Bush tangent would lead. I'm glad to have provided you entertainment.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah, you figured.

 

[kochman]

No, I asked: what should Obama have done?

If the answer is I don't know, as is mine, then you cannot state the Obama Administration failed. Mind you, you also cannot say Obama did everything he could have done. Because of the same reason: my answer is: I don't know.

And economic experts both praise and damn Obama for the decisions he made with regard to the economy, so they're not much help either.

But Europe plays a big part as well in influencing your economy, as does China. Not much Obama can do about that. The economy and the state of it doesn't stop at borders anymore.

Last time I've clarified.

I gave you an answer...
Focus on the economy instead of Obamacare... I don't know why you don't accept that.

If I had the resources of the POTUS, and the economy was so bad and facing this terrible worst depression since the invention of the term, I would have focused on the economy.

Internal policy is not isolated, obviously... but I believe a better job could have been done through a proper focus rather than pushing it off to the side while striving for the ACA. Our economy is number 1 in the world, so we can have a large impact domestically. It's not like we are Iceland subject to the whims of the giants around us.

You asked, I said that... you didn't accept and then got snarkier and snarkier about the issue. I, in return, did the same. It's pretty routine around here.

 

[DinoDoc]

Yeah, you figured.

Forum behavior is somewhat predictable. You made a silly point and complained when it was ignored.

 

[LamaGT]

Thank you... I generally refuse to do his homework for him.


1) I speak Italian, and I know what Lega Nord means, grazie mille. I also know it's a throw back term to the Lombard League that united against the HRE/Barbarossa.
2) I lived there for 4 years, and had people explain this to me, plus what I saw. Leganord is considered fascist by many Italians... and me. Just because they aren't Neo-Nazis doesn't mean they aren't fascist pigs.
3) I understand they are also separatists.
4) I know who they like to represent, and who should be in their special Italy... I lived in the Veneto, which is a pretty powerful area for them... as I said, I talked to Italians about this topic a lot because I found it morbidly fascinating that fascism lives on there even after WW2.
5) I have no real opinion of the linking of Berlusconi vs Left leaders and debt in Italy... It was clear to me for a long time you guys were spending more than you had and your VAT was so high because you needed to bilk the tourists as much as you could to stay afloat, especially with rampant tax evasion (especially in the south/Mezzogiorno). The entire time I was there, Berlusconi was PM I believe. Maybe not, I really didn't follow it that closely. I know he was at least most of the time.
6) Please don't assume because someone isn't Italian, they must be ignorant to Italy. That's probably a good summation of a large number of Americans, but not this one.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I think most Italians meant, these guys are the racist dicks type of fascists more than anything else...

Well if you assume that racist = fascist then i would say the Republicans are fascists somewhat

My assumption of your ignorance came because of your 4 words post which essentially repeated what you said before, so i guessed that you for some reason thought that the name meant something fascist. They are not fascist, they're just conservative racists. Fascism is a lot more extreme. I have yet to hear somebody saying that the Lega is fascist

Debt was rising for the entire three mandates Berlusconi had, and during the short time when Prodi was in, the debt lowered a bit. And while VAT is very high, it's also true that Italy has a lot more social care than the USA (although yes, some cuts to the VAT should be done eventually).


Anyway, my point with the Republicans was that if there are precedents of spend & cut policy for every Republican president (even worse, the huge debt basically IS provoked by Bush's spend & cut), i think it's kinda stupid to vote for Romney, because spend & cut is really the last thing the world needs now. As you can see from Italy.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

but I believe a better job could have been done through a proper focus rather than pushing it off to the side while striving for the ACA.

I do accept that, I don't accept the conclusion of it being the reason he failed. Fail and could have done better are not synonymous.

In fact I'm almost sure better decisions could have been made.

You asked, I said that... you didn't accept and then got snarkier and snarkier about the issue. I, in return, did the same.

I don't like it when people strawman my arguments.

Forum behavior is somewhat predictable. You made a silly point and complained when it was ignored.

You must be less daft than that.

When was the repeal of that seagull act by the way?

 

[kochman]

They are not fascist, they're just conservative racists. Fascism is a lot more extreme. I have yet to hear somebody saying that the Lega is fascist

Italian google results for "Lega Nord fascista"

Italian google results for "Lega Nord fascismo"

English google results for "Lega Nord fascist"

Apparently some disagree with your assessment...