The Official God FAQ

[MobBoss]

Wait a sec, I was 14-15 and had never gotten any attacks on my faith because I was mainly a agnostic at the time (I fell out of the Catholic Church at the age of six). Right now after rediscovering God and returning to Christianity, I am still a baby Christian since I just returned back into Catholic Christianity not to long ago.

I happen to think you were, but just dont understand the nature of the assault. Everyone is attacked, even non-christians. When the world tells you its ok to have sex outside of marriage, or its ok to do drugs, or ok to do whatever kind of sinful activity the world deems ok, then that is an attack from the enemy.

So in a sense God would still forgive me after leaving the faith as a six year old became an agnostic and the return years later when I am 21?.

I dont see why not.

 

[onejayhawk]

It wasn't one specific event, it was a gradual realization that the "truth" I was being fed was a combination of myth, superstition, and (yes) truth.

I dont buy it then. Something else is going on. What you are discribing is a disillusionment of childhood beliefs, not on par with Santa Claus perhaps, but of a similar kind. If it were a genuine conversion, rather than a general discarding of things "childish", then you would have a point of epiphany.

J

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I have not been knowingly lied to about God by a single person I trust. I can say this with certainty. Those who told me about God may have been mistaken but they were sincere. And I ultimately came to a belief in God on my own, not through another human being.

 

[GenMarshall]

I dont see why not.

How many times can God forgive a person, no matter how many times that person sins a sin that the person says he or she wont do?

 

[MrCynical]

So in a sense God would still forgive me after leaving the faith as a six year old became an agnostic and the return years later when I am 21?.

More to the point, why is there anything to forgive? Did leaving the faith cause you to act in a more unpleasant fashion towards other people? Why is it so essential to believe in God and take part in an organised religion? One of the things I have concluded is that any "God" who would demand worship (on pain of eternal torture no less) is neither worthy of worship, or a God.

A God deserving of worship might appreciate it, but would not demand it, request it, or even resent its absence. Surely any divine being is above such petty ego massaging? A God deserving of worship would judge us based on our actions to others, and there have been plenty of atheists of high moral calibre, and plenty of people who call themselves Christians who's actions disgrace humanity (not a specific attack on Christians by the way, I'm just pointing out that all groups have morally objectionable people). I see no reason why a God would differentiate between someone who did the right thing because their religion told them to, and an atheist who did the right thing because of their own moral beliefs. If anything the atheist may be the morally superior, as they made the choice themselves, not out of fear of some vengeful being in the future.

Which leaves the question of why God is silent, at least to me, and it would appear many others. If life is a test on which we will later be judged, surely it is better if we do not know the results and rules in advance? Only someone with no belief in God will always show their true colours, not ones of fear of retribution, and so only they can be truly judged.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Which leaves the question of why God is silent, at least to me, and it would appear many others.

Maybe god is not silent. Maybe you are distracted. Maybe god's song is not what you want or expect it to be so you don't notice it. Maybe god is tired of speaking and having his words misinterpreted by humans. Maybe you are not ready to hear god speak. Maybe god only sings to those who need it and the rest shouldn't worry. Maybe silence is god's voice. There are lots of possibilities.

 

[hahntsak]

maybe God is waiting for a good laugh. some people aren't very funny. maybe God is trying to set up a joke. we can't tell God what he will think is funny. So if we get a spiritual pie in the face, maybe at least God's getting a little chuckle. If we slip on a banana peel that we should have seen, maybe God's laughing a lot.

 

[CaptainF]

Who really knows god?

The whacko nutso preacher, the humble believer, or the atheist?

Why do so many people claim to have the word of god? Who do I believe?

Or maybe, are we all wrong, and we are all incapable of knowing god, what he wants, what he thinks of us, whether he cares that we exist or not. That to me seems like the most logical explanation right now.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Or maybe, are we all wrong, and we are all incapable of knowing god, what he wants, what he thinks of us, whether he cares that we exist or not. That to me seems like the most logical explanation right now.

You may be right, but only if assume god can be understood through logic and reason.

 

[Perfection]

You may be right, but only if assume god can be understood through logic and reason.

If we don't make that assumption then of what use is passing around the concept?

God then becomes a word without meaning.

 

[Birdjaguar]

If we don't make that assumption then of what use is passing around the concept?

God then becomes a word without meaning.

Meaning does only reside in things grounded in reason and logic. The word based explanations are just more difficult. Sometimes "meaning" can be conveyed in other ways that are far more satisfying and complete than words can ever get across.

 

[Perfection]

Meaning does only reside in things grounded in reason and logic. The word based explanations are just more difficult. Sometimes "meaning" can be conveyed in other ways that are far more satisfying and complete than words can ever get across.

Then why bother using the word "god"? What meaning does it convey?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Then why bother using the word "god"? What meaning does it convey?

Convenience mostly. But here, because of the many and varied perceptions about who/what god is, I have to preface things with "christian god" often.

Do you have another word that would convey the same kind of meaning to most people?

How about these from different traditons:
The Friend (sufi term)
Ezad
Prabhu
Parvardigar
Yezdan

 

[Perfection]

Convenience mostly. But here, because of the many and varied perceptions about who/what god is, I have to preface things with "christian god" often.

Do you have another word that would convey the same kind of meaning to most people?

Well I'd have to get the meaning before I could tell you the word.

Unfortunately, your philosophy seems to be a bunch of crazy poetic stuff and little actual substance so gleaning what you're trying to say is damn near impossible.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Unfortunately, your philosophy seems to be a bunch of crazy poetic stuff and little actual substance so gleaning what you're trying to say is damn near impossible.

Yes, it can be difficult. The nature of forum discussions is that things are posted in bits and pieces and in no particular order. Readers have the task of assembling them into something cohesive. I'm not sure anyone here would actually want to read a long winded description of what I believe.

I probably have a few threads where a larger more complete picture is presented all in one place. I do find it interesting that you say I post "crazy poetic stuff and little actual substance". I guess we do not agree on what constitutes "substance". And while I do deeply respect your obvious command of science and the scientific method, I do think that you have neglected the power of poetry and love to reveal truth. Truth that is as real as and as important as the atomic weight of carbon.

Mysticism is often best conveyed through "pointing at" an experience through poetry or verse when words must be used. A true mystic would probably find a face to face meeting a better vehicle for communication and provide a setting where "the whole of a person" can contribute to the conversation.

 

[MrCynical]

Maybe god is not silent. Maybe you are distracted. Maybe god's song is not what you want or expect it to be so you don't notice it. Maybe god is tired of speaking and having his words misinterpreted by humans. Maybe you are not ready to hear god speak. Maybe god only sings to those who need it and the rest shouldn't worry. Maybe silence is god's voice. There are lots of possibilities.

But once again I point out, if life is a test of morality, with the good being rewarded with heaven, and the evil with hell, surely God shouldn't keep kibitzing during the test, especially only to some individuals? Surely an outright silence to all is the only acceptable behaviour?

In any case I still don't see why a God worth worshipping would care whether a good person worships him, affliates themselves to an organized religion that worships him, or indeed believes in him at all. An atheist who does their best to lead a morally excellent life should be regarded the same as Christian, or indeed a member of any other religion, who does the same.

 

[hahntsak]

but sometimes not all is as it seems on the surface. sometimes athiests can put things up as something other than they really are.

take the guy who sued against the pledge of allegiance. he really sued out of spite against an exwife [a devout christian] who won custody over the daughter. he couldn't stand the fact that she won custody so he does everything can to get back at the ex-wife. he states that it's principle, but it all stems from his bitter divorice. the ex-wife probably thinks he's a nut and may have left him for just that reason. that may also explain why he didn't get custody. but he sues on other reasons as a cover.

Sometimes athiest believe there is no perfect God, because they think they are the ones who are perfect. In most cases, they are deluding themselves. In such cases they have an over inflated ego and can be quite arrogant. they can be outright a-sh-les. they seldom tend to be anyone that others would go to for advice and comfort in times of trouble. 'we are on our own' often can go with 'you're on you're own'. the right to neglect of the rest of humanity is the goal of some athiests.

For a true measure of their humanity, how do they treat their fellow humans? Do they sacrifice to help other humans instead of a god? or do they simply hoard their own resources in selfish isolation? Example is how they can be measured. A humanist as opposed to simply an athiest will sacrifice for his or her fellow humans. sometimes faith is the last refuge of humanity.

 

[Markus6]

But once again I point out, if life is a test of morality, with the good being rewarded with heaven, and the evil with hell, surely God shouldn't keep kibitzing during the test, especially only to some individuals? Surely an outright silence to all is the only acceptable behaviour?

Life isn't a test of morality, it's a test of your choice. What's wrong with helping someone out if they've already passed the test?

In any case I still don't see why a God worth worshipping would care whether a good person worships him, affliates themselves to an organized religion that worships him, or indeed believes in him at all. An atheist who does their best to lead a morally excellent life should be regarded the same as Christian, or indeed a member of any other religion, who does the same.

In terms of passing the test God doesn't care if you worship him or join a particular organized religion. And no one can live a life that is morally excellent enough to past the test. I suggest you research the Christian (at least) idea of God a little more.

 

[MrCynical]

Life isn't a test of morality, it's a test of your choice. What's wrong with helping someone out if they've already passed the test?

But the test is incomplete, at the very least until the person dies. Someone may do good in the earlier stages of their life, and later turn to evil. No one who is alive has completed the test, and so has not passed it (you also assert later that it is impossible to pass the test, which makes this argument somewhat strange). For God to start chipping in advice part way through life would be like a teacher seeing a pupil had got the first question of the exam right, and then giving them hints on the later ones. It makes the outcome of the rest of the test flawed. Some credit to the person for getting the first bit right, but neither praise or punishment, heaven or hell, for the rest of it. They have been given an unfair advantage.

In any case, what is the difference between a test of "morality" and a test of "choice"? What is this test of "choice" if not a test of the moral quality of the choices you make?

In terms of passing the test God doesn't care if you worship him or join a particular organized religion. And no one can live a life that is morally excellent enough to past the test. I suggest you research the Christian (at least) idea of God a little more.

Why specifically Christian? The Christian idea of God is the one I understand best. It is also an idea I have a number of problems with. The "God" described in the Old Testament should be burning in his own hell if he acted as described there. The God of the New Testament also shows some flaws, though is of higher moral calibre than the "God" of the Old Testament. Maybe no one can pass the test, but they can at least try to, and some will do better than others. From the Christian perspective life must serve as a test to differentiate between people, or it serves no purpose. Maybe no one quite get full marks with no sin whatever, but soem do far worse than others.

 

[Markus6]

Why specifically Christian? The Christian idea of God is the one I understand best.

The Christian God because it is the one I believe in. You don't seem to understand most Christians idea of God very well.

In any case, what is the difference between a test of "morality" and a test of "choice"? What is this test of "choice" if not a test of the moral quality of the choices you make?

The choice is whether so accept God's forgiveness or not. Immorality is a symptom of our rejection of God, not the problem.