The Official Perfection KOs Creationism Thread Part Four: The Genesis of Ire!

[Perfection]

Just when I thought It couldn't get more stupid...

You know, I wouldn't want to burden you with supporting your own argument. Obviously, it is up to me to do that for you!

I'm not saying do it here, I'm just saying put your money where your mouth is. Fact is, proving evolution isn't the most simple thing.

Nonsense. You don't even know what the term means. Theistic evolution is not compatible with science.

Some versions are some versions have serious conflicts, this is why I said "antievolutionary" (evolution being evolution by natural selection not divine action) creationism as the target in my post.

I seriously doubt that. Otherwise you wouldnt brag about "KO'ing" creationism in your sigline. Christ, even the title of this thread is big on unwarranted bragging.

The boostfulness is facetious to draw posters, it isn't a serious brag.

You aren't KO'ing anything. Any kid can google this stuff up and either cut-and-paste it, or put it into their own words and submit it here.

I don't google this stuff, this is personal knowledge

Have you convinced a lot of them yet? Do you expect to?

Nope and nope, but I do think I've increased understanding of evolution.

The not too subtle point was that a genuine authority on the subject should be consulted.

They don't have the time and patience to educate creationists, so as a person who is rather well versed in science I can act as a viable alternative.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Theistic evolution is not compatible with science.

Can you elaborate on this claim?

 

[warpus]

We know life exists today yet the cause is the question. I'm just one of those who haven't seen the evidence that "natural selection" is the cause.

Nobody is saying that natural selection is the "cause" of life.

 

[brainpan]

Can you elaborate on this claim?

I'd rather not as you're just collateral damage. I made the point I wanted, and it wasn't to attack theists, especially not theists who seek a happy compromise between science and religion.

In fact, to be more specific, the very last thing I would want is to discourage any rational that lends support to the vast majority of Christians who are pretty much science-friendly.

Maybe I should just say this: Scientifically, there is no reason to introduce a force that can't even theoretically be tested for in the first place. But that's neither here nor there, and it doesn't necessarily disrupt the scientific process to assume a creator anyway. And then, just because something is not scientific does not make it untrue.

Peace.

 

[Perfection]

So in other words you're admitting your claim was pretty much wrong?

 

[brainpan]

I've beaten you up enough on this one, Perfection. Go in peace and "educate" people about evolutionary theory to your heart's content. I've said my peace.

Just undersand my generous treatment towards Eran doesn't change my original statement one iota.

The suggestion that theistic evolution is scientific is untrue. Absolutely. But for me to say a person can believe in a creator god without it getting in the way of the scientific process is fair. See? The two statements are quite different in their meanings.

 

[Perfection]

Yeah, but I never said the first.

And I'm pretty sure that everyone but you believes I won the "debate" we're having here.

 

[brainpan]

Yeah, but I never said the first.

Once again, you suggested it. "...theistic creationism can be pretty much harmonious with a scientific understanding of the universe..."

Theistic creationism is not harmonious with science knowledge. Far from it. There is nothing scientific about it at all.

And I'm pretty sure that everyone but you believes I won the "debate" we're having here.

See? These kinds of statements make my case for me. When you aren't parroting other people's reasoning, you quickly slide into a very unrational approach.

Even worse, I assume you could PM some chatroom pals to offer an unsubstantiated "I agree," but that wouldn't tell us too much. If every person on Earth said something that is untrue, it would remain untrue.

On every single point I have made my case, and on more than one of them you have actually expressed some measure of agreement.

1. This: "Evolution is a valid scientific claim. Creationism is not a valid scientific claim." Isn't much of a debate.

2. You have no right to an arrogant attitude in either your sigline or thread title.

3. You also have shown a willingness to believe in things you were unable to support with evidence. "Gut feelings" also guide your beliefs.

 

[Perfection]

Once again, you suggested it. "...theistic creationism can be pretty much harmonious with a scientific understanding of the universe..."

Theistic creationism is not harmonious with science knowledge. Far from it. There is nothing scientific about it at all.

HELLO! Just because it's not scientific doesn't mean it can't be harmonious with science. Art appreciation isn't scientific and yet a person can have that and a scientific understanding of the universe.

1. This: "Evolution is a valid scientific claim. Creationism is not a valid scientific claim." Isn't much of a debate.

When the hell did I claim it was? WHY DO YOU KEEP REITERATING WHAT WE AGREED UPON?

2. You have no right to an arrogant attitude in either your sigline or thread title.

Why the hell don't I?

3. You also have shown a willingness to believe in things you were unable to support with evidence. "Gut feelings" also guide your beliefs.

OMFG! I CAN'T SUPPORT EVERYTHING I BELIEVE WITH AIRTIGHT EMPRICAL EVIDENCE!

Here's a clue for you, nobody can! If you had to think up a coherant argument for every inkling you had about something you'd get nowhere.

It's okay to not have an airtight case for the statement "Bush is a good dude" and only a teenaged nitwit who thinks he knows everything would think so.

 

[brennan]

Even worse, I assume you could PM some chatroom pals to offer an unsubstantiated "I agree," but that wouldn't tell us too much.

"I agree". (with Perfection if there is any doubt)

Yours faithfully,

A non-Fiftychatter.

 

[brainpan]

HELLO! Just because it's not scientific doesn't mean it can't be harmonious with science.

But you still haven't explained how unscientific principles are harmonious with science. Not having a direct contradiction on every point does not necessaily mean harmonious.

And I noticed you beat a hasty retreat to a bizarre variant of my own argument. But again, saying that belief in God (or art appreciation) does not necessarily hamper the scientific process is entirely different than saying Theistic Evolution is harmonious with scientific knowledge, which it is not.

WHY DO YOU KEEP REITERATING WHAT WE AGREED UPON?

For the simple reason you suggested you "...won the "debate" we're having here"

In light of the fact I have proven all three points of my argument, and that you have actually agreed with some of them, it doesn't make sense for you to claim victory.

Why the hell don't I?

You agreed that you were bragging, but that it was not meant to be taken seriously. Well why not? Is it warranted or isn't it?

OMFG! I CAN'T SUPPORT EVERYTHING I BELIEVE WITH AIRTIGHT EMPRICAL EVIDENCE!

That was never the point. I merely sought to prove you relied on "gut feelings" to guide certain beliefs, which I did. You admitted it. You agreed with me. Yet again.

 

[brainpan]

"I agree". (with Perfection if there is any doubt)

Yours faithfully,

A non-Fiftychatter.

But a troll still stinging from the beating a few of us gave your bigoted attitude towards the pizza delivery boy. Rather than raise the validity of any argument submitted here, you merely proved yourself the fool. The dishonesty of identifying yourself as a non-Fiftychatter, as if that makes you somehow objective, especially when you have an axe to grind with me, is pretty amazing.

 

[holy king]

brain pan: genius
all the others: idiots

 

[brainpan]

Not even close.

I don't think you can point to me ever saying I'm a genius, or even an intellectual, but I can show you where I have said I am not an intellectual.

And even more to the point, there aren't too many people here who I have corrected on a point of general knowledge.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I believe you just did

 

[brennan]

For the simple reason you suggested you "...won the "debate" we're having here"

I believe he was referring specifically to the dialogue between himself and your good self rather than the thread. (Or she and herself? I've never been clear on this point.)

Given that Theistic Evolution only really disagrees with science over how you establish how things all started, a question which is arguably beyond the remit of science as it is beyond investigation, I would judge it as fair to say it is 'harmonious' with mainstream science.

But a troll still stinging from the beating a few of us gave your bigoted attitude towards the pizza delivery boy. Rather than raise the validity of any argument submitted here, you merely proved yourself the fool. The dishonesty of identifying yourself as a non-Fiftychatter, as if that makes you somehow objective, especially when you have an axe to grind with me, is pretty amazing.

'Still stinging'? I think you amply demonstrate the gulf in comprehension of that thread between Americans and Euros. You poor yanks didn't even appear to understand what we were saying.

It was you that suggested that being one of Perf's chatroom buddies was significant, not me, so please don't pretend you have the right to criticise me. And read the above for comment upon the validity of argument. How about you do likewise by answering Eran or proving evolution. I haven't seen anything I recognise as argument from you on this thread at all TBH.

I love the way your response to my comment on your personal attack upon Perf is to launch a personal attack on me. And you call me a troll? Irony.

especially when you have an axe to grind with me

I think you may have over-estimated your impact upon this site. Just a smidgen.

 

[brainpan]

'Still stinging'? I think you amply demonstrate the gulf in comprehension of that thread between Americans and Euros.

Your comments were bigoted, pure and simple. And there is no reason to expand this to a discussion of Americans and Europeans in general.

It was you that suggested that being one of Perf's chatroom buddies was significant, not me, so please don't pretend you have the right to criticise me.

No, it was you who included the information with no provocation from me whatever. And it proves nothing whether you fit that classificatin or not. You just want your pound of flesh.

I haven't seen anything I recognise as argument from you on this thread at all

Which only proves, yet again, your willingness to comment without having the first clue what you're talking about. My argument was clearly laid out and discussed in detail. I even enumerated it into three parts.

I think you may have over-estimated your impact upon this site. Just a smidgen.

You want to keep hiding behind other people. Euros, all the members of this site. Man up and take credit for yourself. This is about you and nobody else.

 

[brainpan]

I believe you just did

Like I said, there are a few exceptions.

 

[brennan]

Your comments were bigoted, pure and simple. And there is no reason to expand this to a discussion of Americans and Europeans in general.
No, it was you who included the information with no provocation from me whatever. And it proves nothing whether you fit that classificatin or not. You just want your pound of flesh.
Which only proves, yet again, your willingness to comment without having the first clue what you're talking about. My argument was clearly laid out and discussed in detail. I even enumerated it into three parts.
You want to keep hiding behind other people. Euros, all the members of this site. Man up and take credit for yourself. This is about you and nobody else.

No, I was sticking up for the pizza delivery boys right to be paid properly. I see this fact has still eluded you, and must I point out that it was you that raised the topic in the first place, just as it was you that suggested the significance of being in a chatroom with Perf, and I quote:

I assume you could PM some chatroom pals

Argument? Lets have a look at your first post following the resurgence of this thread:

Then this is officially the most stupid debate ever. Well, probably not the most stupid, but right stupid as compared to most arguments. Naught but insults.

I'll answer the challenge, such as it is. Evolution is science and Creationism is not. Perfection wins :roll eyes: Um, so you agree with perf? Why the hell are you arguing about it three pages later. Unless you're just a troll
So what will be your next victory, Perfection? Proving the Earth is round? Sarcasm. Not argument.

I think people tend to assume a great many things that just aren't true. Towards the top of that list is the notion that there is a vast gulf between the experience of theists and non-theists in a general sense. I doubt that is true.

Even in the limited scope of these forums that is easy enough to demonstrate. When Perfection became frustrated at people criticizing her political favorite, she ran right for the familiar special pleading that so many theists seems to favor. Personal attack.

"But Bush is a good dude!" She kept blurting out. Turns out "Bush is a good dude" was merely a faith belief, at least it was for her. more personal attack.

My point is simple: We all believe in things we don't know to be true. In the sense of religious belief, or the various non-religious metaphysical beliefs of certain atheists, most people probably have the same experience. We just choose to believe in different fantastic things.

Yup, wonderful arguments. In essence you agree with Perf but have carried on trolling for three pages because you can't stop insulting people. You've called me a troll, a bigot and a fool already, and that was just your first reply to me. Way to go with the intellectual debate. I suggest you try the WoW forums instead, they're more your level.

 

[brainpan]

No, I was sticking up for the pizza delivery boys

Bull. You criticized him for complaining, and it quickly became apparent why. You had no clue how tipping works in America. When we set you straight, you didn't apologize but went on a tedious tirade about tipping habits here.

...just as it was you that suggested the significance of being in a chatroom with Perf

Again, it was you who introduced information about your status vis-a-vis chatroom participation with no provocation from me whatever.

Yup, wonderful arguments.

Sorry, I'm not looking for your approval. But the argument I raised was valid and I proved its three points.

However, my correctly identifying special pleading and faith beliefs on the part of Perfection were not personal attacks in this context as I was showing her line of reasoning mirrored that of the religious people she was criticizing.

Clearly, hers is not a case of reason vs fallacy. Reason is only of upmost importance when it's applied to her favored subjects.

You've called me a troll

When you trolled

a bigot

For acting as one toward the pizza boy.

and a fool

For your dishonest ploy in presenting yourself as an unbiased observer.

I suggest you try the WoW forums instead, they're more your level.

I don't know anything about those forums, but I'm not too surprised you seem intimately aquainted them!