Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
Managed to win on my first try 
I guess the experience from the 30 hours in the previous scenarios payed off
I guess the experience from the 30 hours in the previous scenarios payed off
The OpenDev/Preview Thread
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SupremacyKing2
Deity
Finished scenario #1, Played pretty leisurely, not trying to min/max. Overall, I really enjoyed the scenario. I can tell I will love the game. The map is absolutely beautiful. I love the gameplay mechanics. City management is great too.
One question: can you scroll the map by dragging the mouse to the edge of the screen? I feel like it would make moving around the map easier.
One question: can you scroll the map by dragging the mouse to the edge of the screen? I feel like it would make moving around the map easier.
Had a harder time my second time playing the final scenario. I tried to be proactive attacking small groups of units as they trickled in, but Khmer managed to pull together a really large army attacking Oxenford. It was close but I managed to beat them back.... then on to their capital 
Maybe I haven't figured out the "trick" with their elephant EU, but they are really tough. The AI does a pretty great job at keeping them in good positions/advantageous terrain. Hopefully they are very expensive to produce.
I still find the reinforcement system a little confusing and frustrating at times. In a couple instances I had arranged my battle line really nicely with melee units at choke points with longbows behind... only to have Khmer reinforcements appear right behind me. I assume this is working as intended though.
Also, apparently when a resource extractor tile is part of the siege you lose that strategic resource, stalling production of anything that you were building that required said resource (my knights in this case). I personally found that kind of obnoxious.
I felt like this was considerably easier than the Imjin War Scenario from last week. All in all, super fun! Glad to hear so many forum members got into OpenDev today
Maybe I haven't figured out the "trick" with their elephant EU, but they are really tough. The AI does a pretty great job at keeping them in good positions/advantageous terrain. Hopefully they are very expensive to produce.
I still find the reinforcement system a little confusing and frustrating at times. In a couple instances I had arranged my battle line really nicely with melee units at choke points with longbows behind... only to have Khmer reinforcements appear right behind me. I assume this is working as intended though.
Also, apparently when a resource extractor tile is part of the siege you lose that strategic resource, stalling production of anything that you were building that required said resource (my knights in this case). I personally found that kind of obnoxious.
I felt like this was considerably easier than the Imjin War Scenario from last week. All in all, super fun! Glad to hear so many forum members got into OpenDev today
CivLuvah
Deity
I've finally finished playing the first scenario of OpenDev! Here are my thoughts. I've already posted them at the Games2Gether forum, but I'd want to share them here as well. It's most likely that many of the impressions that I would want to share have already been mentioned somewhere in these forums or elsewhere, so here are the impressions I got that I feel haven't been mentioned yet. I also put in some questions that I'm not sure had been answered already, as well as some criticisms that I'm not sure are supposed to be in the game.
The Good:
Overall I am very impressed with what I've seen so far! By the end of each playthrough of this scenario, it has left me wanting more, even though this is basically a bare-bones scenario using the basic mechanics. And this is just in the alpha build.
The Good:
- The OpenDev build works well with old hardware or low-to-mid end systems. My laptop has specs of Intel i7-6700HQ and NVIDIA GTX 960M with 4GB RAM, and it runs almost okay. I mostly used the "Fast" graphics mode in two of my playthroughs, and "Good" in my first one. The "Good" option worked okay, until somehow while I was answering the feedback survey my system crashed. Despite this, I assume that the end product will run okay for hardware that have roughly the same specs as I do.
- The artwork is just gorgeous! I know a lot of people have said this before, but I wanna say it again.
- I like how you queue techs in the tech tree. It's a very efficient feature.
- The way city-building is structured is amazing. You can build quarters next to outposts, castles, harbours, extraction points, basically making them into small towns. If the city in your region is the main city, then these quarters would be like small towns or minor cities. I think this opens a lot to imagining your territories as sort of small city-states and your culture as a people (a la Greek or Italian city-states). I thought I saw this potential in Civ6 with their district mechanics, but this is a more fleshed out and flexible realization of that potential. Now I hope Humankind gets to represent the Italians before Civ6 does
- I like how you get to move the little animals and people in the map with your cursor. It's quite fun. In two instances I made two lions and a man go into the ocean with my cursor. I'm not sure if they survived or not.
- I can't move the map whenever I drag my cursor. I had to rely on my keys. But I'm sure it'll be fixed near the beta build or something.
- There's also no button or anything that I can use to recentre the camera to my city. It's kind of laborious to put my camera on the capital from somewhere far away whenever I zoomed in. Again, I'm sure this will be fixed near the beta build.
- Whenever I engage in a battle, there are areas in which I can't go and it says that it's not within my deployment zone. The deployment zone boundaries aren't clear enough for me to distinguish and know why it's not within my zone. I don't know if that's supposed to happen or not. Also, at the time of writing, I don't know if human vs human (as to animals in this case) is the same as what I experienced, as I haven't played the second scenario yet.
- Pre-battle I wanted to make sure that my units are directly next to the animals I'm attacking. Whenever I enter the deployment phase, I couldn't find that animal, and only after I finish deploying it's going towards me. Sometimes I have to chase it everywhere within the deployment zone. I assume this is the AI trying to hide from me, although I'm not sure about that either. Admittedly this isn't not really a criticism so much as confusion about what's supposed to happen.
- What's the mist I see sometimes over my quarters? I forgot to take a screenshot of it for reference.
- Money is important in this game, that's why I spent most of my time getting those curiosities, hoping I could get money while activating Science Mode.
- I remember some people mentioned that whenever they activate science mode or focus on food, they get too much of that resource. I didn't see that whenever I try to aim for more food production or science. Granted, I think they're trying to test the mechanics to their limits, or just happened to build a lot stuff for that resource while I don't.
- I felt satisfied after one battle I had when I encountered two dear and two mammoths with just a Babylonian EU and an archer. The odds were even - 48/37 - but I managed to win it using tactics and the terrain. Here are pictures I took as proof:
Overall I am very impressed with what I've seen so far! By the end of each playthrough of this scenario, it has left me wanting more, even though this is basically a bare-bones scenario using the basic mechanics. And this is just in the alpha build.
@Catoninetales_Amplitude
+
The feeling of city growing and expanding is incredible. It also all feels so organic, natural, realistic, much more than civ6 with its weirdly growing borders and literally placing a building in a campus. Civ6 has this weird juxtaposition of large scale (metropolies, continents) and small scale (a shrine in a holy site near this place...). Humankind's cities feel like spreading urbanisation and civilization. This is incredible.
+
Also, I am utterly convinced that territories are superior solution over the chaos of free settling everywhere. It just SOLVES SO MANY DAMN PROBLEMS: forward settling, stupid AI city locations, too much city density, cluttered map, map balance, resource placement, connecting cities with roads, aestethics of how do imperial borders look, borders blocking sea travel... Map feels so much bigger in Humankind.
-
Curiosity rewards are less exciting than villages/ruins in civ.
-
Is it just me who finds incredibly low density of resources disturbing?
-
Mixed feelings about the whole wildlife combat thing. It's just arcadey and unrealistic, homo sapiens has been utterly dominating megafauna by as Early as 10 000 BC, and here animals are somehow military forces to be wary of? Especially as open dev tech tree doesn't start in early neolith but at the onset of civilization.
+
The map in Humankind is so aestethically pleasing that I have realized I am uncovering it just for that reason alone. Not even the purpose of exploration and finding interesting stuff, just aestethic contemplation. This engine could as well be a basis of some relaxing design - the - planet - and - watch - it - evolve simulator. This is wonderful.
-
I seriously do hope the game will contain a decent tutorial, I had no idea what am I doing with yields and adjacency bonuses and didn't even discover exploitation system.
+
As I said, its hilarious how pre alpha of HK has better AI than civ6 GS. That's what happens when developers design combat system modern AI tech can actually play without NASA computers.
-
The lack of technology quotes, or big images, or anything, is seriously a flaw in a game which excels in immersion in many other aspects. Its a minor thing but such an inferior minor thing than civ's quotes after getting a new tech.
+
On the other hand, I had no idea how have I missed units talking!
-
Maybe that does sound strange, but there are too many options unlocked to quickly - either that or production/research balance is off (not unexpected in a freakin pre alpha). Sometimes less is more. Civ5 early dilemmas between a shrine, a monument, a worker and a scout were brilliant in their hidden complexity, here I am getting a headache with a dozen of infrastructural systems and new ones arriving every 6 turns (and old ones being built every 4).
+
On the other hand, I am not certain if that is a bad thing, because civ5 early game was an enormous suffering with getting anything started, while here we do get a harmonious flow of activities. That's good, I'd just slow down production a little bit and research slightly more, to avoid overwhelming player. But maybe other people have different opinions.
+
I have realized some time ago how many frustrations and immersion breaking of civ would be solved if settlers and workers (civilian units in general) were removed from the game and replaced with more realistic solutions and less micromanaging, glad to see it happening here.
-
I have no idea at all what are movement rules both on tactical and strategic layer. Or where are my districts getting adjacency bonuses from. Or anything involving interface, really (yes yes I know its merely pre alpha, just pointing at this direction already)
+
However I absolutely love the idea of giving units 4 move instead of classical 2, it makes the progress feel less painful. Combined with stacking, it does remove so much micromanagement. Combined with aestethics, it makes exploration a meditation.
+
The event of choosing between solar and lunar calendar is exactly the sort of thing which I have desired in a games like this. Just pure coolness.
+
The feeling of city growing and expanding is incredible. It also all feels so organic, natural, realistic, much more than civ6 with its weirdly growing borders and literally placing a building in a campus. Civ6 has this weird juxtaposition of large scale (metropolies, continents) and small scale (a shrine in a holy site near this place...). Humankind's cities feel like spreading urbanisation and civilization. This is incredible.
+
Also, I am utterly convinced that territories are superior solution over the chaos of free settling everywhere. It just SOLVES SO MANY DAMN PROBLEMS: forward settling, stupid AI city locations, too much city density, cluttered map, map balance, resource placement, connecting cities with roads, aestethics of how do imperial borders look, borders blocking sea travel... Map feels so much bigger in Humankind.
-
Curiosity rewards are less exciting than villages/ruins in civ.
-
Is it just me who finds incredibly low density of resources disturbing?
-
Mixed feelings about the whole wildlife combat thing. It's just arcadey and unrealistic, homo sapiens has been utterly dominating megafauna by as Early as 10 000 BC, and here animals are somehow military forces to be wary of? Especially as open dev tech tree doesn't start in early neolith but at the onset of civilization.
+
The map in Humankind is so aestethically pleasing that I have realized I am uncovering it just for that reason alone. Not even the purpose of exploration and finding interesting stuff, just aestethic contemplation. This engine could as well be a basis of some relaxing design - the - planet - and - watch - it - evolve simulator. This is wonderful.
-
I seriously do hope the game will contain a decent tutorial, I had no idea what am I doing with yields and adjacency bonuses and didn't even discover exploitation system.
+
As I said, its hilarious how pre alpha of HK has better AI than civ6 GS. That's what happens when developers design combat system modern AI tech can actually play without NASA computers.
-
The lack of technology quotes, or big images, or anything, is seriously a flaw in a game which excels in immersion in many other aspects. Its a minor thing but such an inferior minor thing than civ's quotes after getting a new tech.
+
On the other hand, I had no idea how have I missed units talking!
-
Maybe that does sound strange, but there are too many options unlocked to quickly - either that or production/research balance is off (not unexpected in a freakin pre alpha). Sometimes less is more. Civ5 early dilemmas between a shrine, a monument, a worker and a scout were brilliant in their hidden complexity, here I am getting a headache with a dozen of infrastructural systems and new ones arriving every 6 turns (and old ones being built every 4).
+
On the other hand, I am not certain if that is a bad thing, because civ5 early game was an enormous suffering with getting anything started, while here we do get a harmonious flow of activities. That's good, I'd just slow down production a little bit and research slightly more, to avoid overwhelming player. But maybe other people have different opinions.
+
I have realized some time ago how many frustrations and immersion breaking of civ would be solved if settlers and workers (civilian units in general) were removed from the game and replaced with more realistic solutions and less micromanaging, glad to see it happening here.
-
I have no idea at all what are movement rules both on tactical and strategic layer. Or where are my districts getting adjacency bonuses from. Or anything involving interface, really
(yes yes I know its merely pre alpha, just pointing at this direction already)+
However I absolutely love the idea of giving units 4 move instead of classical 2, it makes the progress feel less painful. Combined with stacking, it does remove so much micromanagement. Combined with aestethics, it makes exploration a meditation.
+
The event of choosing between solar and lunar calendar is exactly the sort of thing which I have desired in a games like this. Just pure coolness.
Last edited:
CivLuvah
Deity
That's what I was wondering at as well. Just to clarify, the exploitation system is the resource extraction (the artisan quarters over salt, for example)?
I still think the fact that they have pictures on the tech tree already makes it beautiful, and the absence of quotes is a nice breath of fresh air in my opinion. If you want a bigger view of the tech image you can hover over the tech button on the lower left.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
First impressions on the tactical battles:
1) Love the concept. Very well executed. By going into a tactical mode with mini turns, it really feels like you are fighting a battle.
2) The terrain really matters which is great. Pretty much every battle I've fought so far has been determined by the terrain. I've even won battles where I was outnumbered because I used the terrain better. So I feel like wars in Humankind will be as much about how good you are at tactical battles as they are about your strategic planning. Based on the OpenDev scenarios, I feel like the game itself will give us some very memorable wars where the battles will be very memorable and impactful. Can't wait.
.3) Still learning about the various units. I do like that melee, ranged and cavalry feel more unique in HK than in civ. This is because ranged units can fire further away so they truly feel like ranged units. And calvary can charge over several tiles so cavalry charges feel more like real calvary charges. And you can truly outflank melee units with cavalry and attach from the read for devastating effects which is great.
1) Love the concept. Very well executed. By going into a tactical mode with mini turns, it really feels like you are fighting a battle.
2) The terrain really matters which is great. Pretty much every battle I've fought so far has been determined by the terrain. I've even won battles where I was outnumbered because I used the terrain better. So I feel like wars in Humankind will be as much about how good you are at tactical battles as they are about your strategic planning. Based on the OpenDev scenarios, I feel like the game itself will give us some very memorable wars where the battles will be very memorable and impactful. Can't wait.
.3) Still learning about the various units. I do like that melee, ranged and cavalry feel more unique in HK than in civ. This is because ranged units can fire further away so they truly feel like ranged units. And calvary can charge over several tiles so cavalry charges feel more like real calvary charges. And you can truly outflank melee units with cavalry and attach from the read for devastating effects which is great.
tedhebert
Emperor
Managed to win on my first try
I guess the experience from the 30 hours in the previous scenarios payed off
Yeah me too. bout the same stats as you... I Killed 45 I think. I DID manage to lose that other city though. I attached each outpost to one of the city as my very first move. Really not sure if that was an advantage or not. Will try again without attaching them to see...
One thing happened to me. My second city to the east was under siege, and I wanted to bring in 2 knights as reinforcement. most tiles in the city range showed it would have taken me 3 turns to make it there, because of river. then i saw onw tile completely to the southwest of the coty that was in the radius and where i could get in 1 turn. So I jumped on it... WRONG !!! Very bad move. That single tile was the last tile included in the coty radius when in battle, and was surrounded by cliffs that made the battle terrain unreachable. Those 2 knights were stuck there for at least half the scenario, because I couldn't move them out, and even if I chose to take them OUT of being reinforcement, they were never released from battle until the siege ended. The problem was, the siege was never ended because when I killed them all, reinforcement kept on arriving and keeping the siege alive.
Three lessons I've learned from that, that I will never forget while playing this game:
1) Be very careful where you're going to place your units on the map if battle is coming, because you might get stucked
2) At one moment in that siege, I lost all my units, because of those 2 stuck knights which couldn't come into play, and attrition. Well, to my surprise, I still won the siege because of those 2 knights, because they were still alive when battle finished and I was defender. I guess the AI never thought of taking control of the flag ?
3) Always, Always bring range to battles. See number 2 ;-) The AI didn't have any ranged unit when THAT Happened, so they ALSO couldn't get to my knights ;-)
Had a harder time my second time playing the final scenario. I tried to be proactive attacking small groups of units as they trickled in, but Khmer managed to pull together a really large army attacking Oxenford. It was close but I managed to beat them back.... then on to their capital
Maybe I haven't figured out the "trick" with their elephant EU, but they are really tough. The AI does a pretty great job at keeping them in good positions/advantageous terrain. Hopefully they are very expensive to produce.
I still find the reinforcement system a little confusing and frustrating at times. In a couple instances I had arranged my battle line really nicely with melee units at choke points with longbows behind... only to have Khmer reinforcements appear right behind me. I assume this is working as intended though.
Also, apparently when a resource extractor tile is part of the siege you lose that strategic resource, stalling production of anything that you were building that required said resource (my knights in this case). I personally found that kind of obnoxious.
I felt like this was considerably easier than the Imjin War Scenario from last week. All in all, super fun! Glad to hear so many forum members got into OpenDev today
I've had my share of problems understanding reinforcements. One thing you should know, if you don't already: As it works for you, the enemy's reinforcement(s) point(s) will be displayed on the map (unless they're in the fog of war). The reinforcement points themselves are unmovable for the duration of the battle. If there's a way for you to move a unit on top of the reinforcement point without it being killed, NO units will be able to be move into play from THAT reinforcement point. Also, the same holds for YOUR's... dont't let enemy units stand on your points !
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
Yeah, the "charge" bonus from cavalry is great, makes you think of them differently, always moving them around, and as a defender the first thing you want to do is pin them down. I love how pikes are great against cavalry, but in the right situations. And flanking cavalry charges are the bane of elephants:
What I also really like is the production difference between units. Knights are VERY strong, but cost 3 times more than a pikeman and need 2 iron and 2 horse resources under your control.
Is it WAD that elephants are not considered cavalry, so there's no pikeman bonus against them?
Did anyone notice if strategic resources are needed to heal units that require these for production, i.e. units don't heal if your extractors are pillaged?
Did anyone notice if strategic resources are needed to heal units that require these for production, i.e. units don't heal if your extractors are pillaged?
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
WAD?
In any case, I really thought they would work against them, so when a lone elephant came to my city I built one. That didn't go well
No, I didn't notice if it had any effect.
I liked the first scenario, lots of things familiar from the Endless Legend/Endless Space series. The other scenarios I found very dull... might be because tactical combat is not something I've ever enjoyed nor found interesting. I'm sure everyone complaining about combat in Civilization 5/6 will love it though.
CivLuvah
Deity
I'm not the kind of person inclined towards combat in 4X games, especially in Civ6. In fact, I always dread going to war because I want to avoid combat since it feels so laborious. When I play combat in the second scenario of Humankind however, I'm left with the feeling that I actually want to engage in combat because of how tactical it is.
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
Yeah, what I love about it is that it's very clear on what works and what doesn't work. I love the brutality of the combat difference, and makes you pulling out a great "combo" all the more satisfying.
tedhebert
Emperor
yeah, my first reaction to the huge impact of elevation on damage, and all other features impact like flanking etc was : "OMG, this is WAY too much, makes no sense"... But the more I play, the more I realize that 1) the choices made are very realistic and intelligent ones and 2) People are already complaining that combat is too long, this makes it faster, and so it is good !
Catoninetales_Amplitude
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- Messages
- 404
The names Londonia and Oxeneford are taken from the Domesday Book.
While edge-scrolling is not implemented yet, click-and-drag should work.
There are two situations regarding reinforcements:
1. If the reinforcing army is inside the deployment zone of its civilization, they get to deploy just like the main army.
2. If they are not, they move from the tile on which the army stood before the battle in the first battle round of their civilization.
Generally AI tries to take defensive positions when they are the defender, but the animal AI is deliberately a very "Direct" AI. I believe they try to stay away and hidden, but if they see you, they feel threatened and will rush in to attack.
Pacing is one of the areas we were looking for feedback, and we got a lot.
I have noticed some issues with deployment zone and battle edge that may be related to the use of the map editor. Tiles that cannot be reached from your the position of the involved armies should not be included in the battle, and thus would not be eligible to bring in reinforcements.
At the moment it is Working As Designed, but we've had a lot of feedback about this.
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