The OpenDev/Preview Thread

I am honestly shocked by how well this game is optimized so far. We don't know AI turn times yet, but what we got so far is quite impressive with this graphical quality.

I'd like to notice now that actually Humankind is sort of going after cartoonish vibe as well as civ6. But oh God I think everybody here will agree with how much better this style looks.


I am also shocked by the fact that Humankind (2021), Doom Eternal (2020) and even Witcher 3 are much better optimized on my PC than Attila Total War (2015), Jesus Christ what went wrong here :D
 
I Haven't posted on scenario 3 yet... been busy.

I really loved the scenario itself. allowed us to get the feel of both manage a small empire and get seriously attacked by 2 factions at the same time.

My first run through was chaotic, made a few mistakes, but in the end I survived it all. I attached both outposts right off the bat, one to each city.

On my second try, I attached only one outpost to Londonium, and left the other outpost unattached but bought a fortress. That turned out pretty bad, since I lost that outpost in the first 3 turns,
and then didn't have that 2nd horse resource to allow me to build more knights. I still stayed alive, but lost the Oxeneford to Khmer.

On my third try, I only attached one outpost to Oxeneford and didn't attach the other one to Londonium. I then managed to wipe everything the Khmer sent to me before they ever got to Londonium,
and even went out and wiped out the Khmer capital. That was VERY satisfying ;-) I found that building units in the cities and then buying them out when they were at 1 or 2 turns from being completed
was a very good recipe.

A few thoughts:

- I found the Aztecs, and in particular their Jaguar Warriors, to be very underwhelming. I had no problems whatsoever dealing with them even when leaving limited defenders. I suppose the terrain layout was a lot more helpful to Longbowmen in Londonium, but still, I was surprised at how easy it was to deal with many Warriors; You could take your archers to the hills, then park a single defending unit on the entrance tile to the hills and let them come. peasants were not strong enough to handle this, but pikemen easily were because of the high ground.

- I found the terrain layout of Oxeneford much harder to handle. yes, the fortress was well placed and allowed at least a very strong longbowman to be placed, but even the fortress was pretty hard to defend. then most of the coty tiles themselves were on lower ground from everything east and south, so your units were very vulnurable, even if fortified.

- The Dhanvi-Gaja was an awesome and difficult enemy to handle. 2 of them at the same time made it even worse. thx @Catoninetales_Amplitude for explaining how expensive they're going to be to produce, that's a real relief. I found that they are almost impossible to handle if they get a chance to enter a fortified position or high ground (at least with the units we had at hand). But... after a few tries, you could find ways NOT to let them take those 2 kind of positions on the map. then, a Knight charge from high ground was proven to be very efficient, and longbowmen repeated attacks from high ground at 5-10 damage apiece also. So they were not totally unbeatable. In one instance, I had few defenses left and had a longbowman in a high ground fortified position, and saw the AI use very efficiently the Elephant's "move and fire" attribute by sniping me then going into fog of war, then next turn moving back in and sniping again. That made me lose one attack on him every 2 turns, quite annoying ;-)

- I really don't like that if you successfully block a reinforcement during a siege, once it's over, another siege immediately restarts, on the same exact round, with the blocked units. I feel this is WAD, but if that's the case, then I really hate that design. There should be only ONE siege on a single turn.

- I also saw the AI go after a peasant I was using to block a reinforcement. I really like that the AI is already intelligent enough to do stuff like that ;-) I was mad when the peasant died and the reinforcement came through, but it's still what we want to see ;-)

All in all, I am extremely satisfied on where this game already is and is headed to at this stage of the development process. It's impressive. Many many people have complained about many details, especially on the UI and on combat limitations and clarity, and I feel with good reasons, but also people seem to have forgotten that 1) this is a pre-alpha product and 2) the goal was to get feedback. I think that goal has been very successful.

finally.... DIE KHMER !!! ;-)

20200816163841_1.jpg


20200816164132_1.jpg
 
I found the Aztecs, and in particular their Jaguar Warriors, to be very underwhelming.
Remember that the Jaguar Warriors, while being a bit stronger than the pikemen (2 points I believe, which amounts to 10 more damage dealt and 10 less taken), cost the same as a Pikemen and do not require resources (unlike the more expensive Greatswordsmen.) I find them quite useful when I'm short on Iron.
 
That feeling when I am sad that I cannot play Humankind Open Dev for a few days, but then I realize there is no point in being sad because of this - instead I should be sad that the full game isn't released until 2021!
 
Hello guys !

Scar, from Amplitude here. I am an Associate Producer there, I work closely with the battle and diplomacy team and also some of our art teams.

Anyway, a big THANK YOU for the feedback you have put in this thread. This will be very valuable to the team and this was the main goal of the open devs scenarios.

It is really heartwarming to see that you really like rationale of the overall battle system and the sieges here :)
One of you spent more than 20 hours on the open devs, this is crazy :D

Regarding some of the most mentioned issues:
1) Line of Sight Feedbacks: We have a new design ready for those feedbacks but we could not implement it in time for the open devs sadly.
2) Balancing: As explained by other, it is a pre-alpha build. The game will go through A LOT of balancing iterations until the release next year. Combat strength bonuses from elevation could be smaller at release for example.
3) Signs and Feedbacks about combat strength bonuses and penalties: we aim to make things clearer for the release
4) Movement range feedback: It's something we had at some point but we dropped it. I can't say I remember why. We will study ways to bring this feedback back in the game. As you can imagine it is not that trivial as we have to find the right balance between making things clear and giving enough feedbacks to the players.
5) Deployment and Reinforcement Systems: Those systems are not the most understood of the systems available in the open dev. This is mainly because of missing feedbacks. Similarly to the line of sight, we couldn't implement some of the UI elements for those systems in time for the open devs.
6) I have seen someone mentioning issues with red/green colours. We have some colourblind developers (including me), so we are aware that those colours can be problematic. Our goal is to make the game as accessible as possible at release for anyone
7) Time spent managing the battles: As said by other people, we will have an instant resolution of the battles. We don't know yet if this is going to be available for the biggest battles.
As you have seen, you already have the auto-battle feature where the AI plays for you once the battle is ongoing.
We also have something else in the works to make managing battles faster and simpler but we are not ready to talk about it.... (teasing 101, am I doing this right @Catoninetales_Amplitude ?)

Thanks again for the feedback, it will me really useful ;)

Cheers ;)
 
Hello guys !

Scar, from Amplitude here. I am an Associate Producer there, I work closely with the battle and diplomacy team and also some of our art teams.

Anyway, a big THANK YOU for the feedback you have put in this thread. This will be very valuable to the team and this was the main goal of the open devs scenarios.

It is really heartwarming to see that you really like rationale of the overall battle system and the sieges here :)
One of you spent more than 20 hours on the open devs, this is crazy :D

Regarding some of the most mentioned issues:
1) Line of Sight Feedbacks: We have a new design ready for those feedbacks but we could not implement it in time for the open devs sadly.
2) Balancing: As explained by other, it is a pre-alpha build. The game will go through A LOT of balancing iterations until the release next year. Combat strength bonuses from elevation could be smaller at release for example.
3) Signs and Feedbacks about combat strength bonuses and penalties: we aim to make things clearer for the release
4) Movement range feedback: It's something we had at some point but we dropped it. I can't say I remember why. We will study ways to bring this feedback back in the game. As you can imagine it is not that trivial as we have to find the right balance between making things clear and giving enough feedbacks to the players.
5) Deployment and Reinforcement Systems: Those systems are not the most understood of the systems available in the open dev. This is mainly because of missing feedbacks. Similarly to the line of sight, we couldn't implement some of the UI elements for those systems in time for the open devs.
6) I have seen someone mentioning issues with red/green colours. We have some colourblind developers (including me), so we are aware that those colours can be problematic. Our goal is to make the game as accessible as possible at release for anyone
7) Time spent managing the battles: As said by other people, we will have an instant resolution of the battles. We don't know yet if this is going to be available for the biggest battles.
As you have seen, you already have the auto-battle feature where the AI plays for you once the battle is ongoing.
We also have something else in the works to make managing battles faster and simpler but we are not ready to talk about it.... (teasing 101, am I doing this right @Catoninetales_Amplitude ?)

Thanks again for the feedback, it will me really useful ;)

Cheers ;)

Hello, thank you for your response :)

Have you considered some sort of UI making it easier to discern between Lower Elevation and Higher Elevation? For example
a) Press button X to see differently colored elevation levels
b) Press button Z to enter elevation view mode, then you click on your unit, all enemy units get color "lower/higher/same elevation level". If you hover over terrain tiles, colors of enemy units change to display whether they will be higher/lower ground when compared with this tile.

Without such features, discerning between high/low ground interactions of all enemy units is very difficult.

Additionally, I just wanted to comment on something unlikely to change (more fundamental) but:
- it is very cool that a unit has a high ground bonus if it shoots/attacks directly from it onto the lower ground
- but does it make sense that a unit will start from a hill, walk a few tiles of equal terrain as enemy, attack him and still have high ground bonus? You could sort of handwave it with "momentum" but I'm not entirely sure about it being intuitive. As significant part of the above UI problem is units suddenly coming from nowhere and dealing me high dmg because they were on a high ground... Many tiles away. Often unpredictable (unless I got something wrong).

Cheers! I have 8 day long French Duolingo learning streak :D
 
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- but does it make sense that a unit will start from a hill, walk a few tiles of equal terrain as enemy, attack him and still have high ground bonus? You could sort of handwave it with "momentum" but I'm not entirely sure about it being intuitive. As significant part of the above UI problem is units suddenly coming from nowhere and dealing me high dmg because they were on a high ground... Many tiles away. Often unpredictable (unless I got something wrong).
As far as I recall, it shouldn't. The high ground bonus is calculated based on the tile the attacker and defender stand on when the attack happens at the end of the movement. Perhaps you ran into a bug, or were the units dealing the significant damage to you cavalry units? A lot of those receive charge bonuses.
 
One of you spent more than 20 hours on the open devs, this is crazy :D

More like 40 :P

upload_2020-8-21_11-7-35.png


Thanks for dropping by! Looking forward to the improvements on feedback and usability. The design itself was great for me.
 
One of you spent more than 20 hours on the open devs, this is crazy :D

lol why do I feel targeted here ? I ended up at 28H ;-)

but I see that @Elhoim beat me, so there's that ;-)

Thanks for dropping by, and handing out these informations. Very appreciated !

I, like @Krajzen, really feel that something in the UI should help us see more clearly elevation levels; most importantly in combat, but also on the normal map if possible: I've also had a hard time decrypting it on the map, and constantly had to use the 'arrow' option on the unit menu to figure out where I would be able to pass and not. But on normal map would be a nicety; in combat, I feel it's an absolute must.
 
I, like @Krajzen, really feel that something in the UI should help us see more clearly elevation levels; most importantly in combat, but also on the normal map if possible: I've also had a hard time decrypting it on the map, and constantly had to use the 'arrow' option on the unit menu to figure out where I would be able to pass and not. But on normal map would be a nicety; in combat, I feel it's an absolute must.

Agreed, I'm not sure of the most elegant way to do it - Amplitude has clearly spent considerable time crafting the aesthetic of the map and the battlefield. Do you think it needs to appear on the map all the time, or could it be part of a terrain tooltip similar to what I mocked-up below (the denominator could be the absolute maximum elevation within the battlefield - absolute minimum elevation)

upload_2020-8-21_13-3-45.png
 
Hello guys !

Scar, from Amplitude here. I am an Associate Producer there, I work closely with the battle and diplomacy team and also some of our art teams.

Anyway, a big THANK YOU for the feedback you have put in this thread. This will be very valuable to the team and this was the main goal of the open devs scenarios.

It is really heartwarming to see that you really like rationale of the overall battle system and the sieges here :)
One of you spent more than 20 hours on the open devs, this is crazy :D

Regarding some of the most mentioned issues:
1) Line of Sight Feedbacks: We have a new design ready for those feedbacks but we could not implement it in time for the open devs sadly.
2) Balancing: As explained by other, it is a pre-alpha build. The game will go through A LOT of balancing iterations until the release next year. Combat strength bonuses from elevation could be smaller at release for example.
3) Signs and Feedbacks about combat strength bonuses and penalties: we aim to make things clearer for the release
4) Movement range feedback: It's something we had at some point but we dropped it. I can't say I remember why. We will study ways to bring this feedback back in the game. As you can imagine it is not that trivial as we have to find the right balance between making things clear and giving enough feedbacks to the players.
5) Deployment and Reinforcement Systems: Those systems are not the most understood of the systems available in the open dev. This is mainly because of missing feedbacks. Similarly to the line of sight, we couldn't implement some of the UI elements for those systems in time for the open devs.
6) I have seen someone mentioning issues with red/green colours. We have some colourblind developers (including me), so we are aware that those colours can be problematic. Our goal is to make the game as accessible as possible at release for anyone
7) Time spent managing the battles: As said by other people, we will have an instant resolution of the battles. We don't know yet if this is going to be available for the biggest battles.
As you have seen, you already have the auto-battle feature where the AI plays for you once the battle is ongoing.
We also have something else in the works to make managing battles faster and simpler but we are not ready to talk about it.... (teasing 101, am I doing this right @Catoninetales_Amplitude ?)

Thanks again for the feedback, it will me really useful ;)

Cheers ;)

This is quite a surprise having another team member of Amplitude in the forums! Thanks for responding to our feedback here! :D
 
Agreed, I'm not sure of the most elegant way to do it - Amplitude has clearly spent considerable time crafting the aesthetic of the map and the battlefield. Do you think it needs to appear on the map all the time, or could it be part of a terrain tooltip similar to what I mocked-up below (the denominator could be the absolute maximum elevation within the battlefield - absolute minimum elevation)

View attachment 566924

Personally, I would simply add a lens on the lower right side of the UI. Click on it and some color scheme overlays on the combat grid. They already use lens on the game map for yields etc...
 
Remember that the Jaguar Warriors, while being a bit stronger than the pikemen (2 points I believe, which amounts to 10 more damage dealt and 10 less taken), cost the same as a Pikemen and do not require resources (unlike the more expensive Greatswordsmen.) I find them quite useful when I'm short on Iron.

Conscious that this may be subject to further refinement, but does that mean that damage is calculated based on absolute, rather than relative differences? So a 12 strength attack to a 10 strength defence will do the same damage as a 42 to 40 strength attack? It would make sense, otherwise all the flat bonuses from terrain, flanking and experience would be much more valuable early on and matter less in late-game ... which would be wrong.
 
Conscious that this may be subject to further refinement, but does that mean that damage is calculated based on absolute, rather than relative differences? So a 12 strength attack to a 10 strength defence will do the same damage as a 42 to 40 strength attack? It would make sense, otherwise all the flat bonuses from terrain, flanking and experience would be much more valuable early on and matter less in late-game ... which would be wrong.

Yep, that's how it is. 2 point difference does the same HP damage always.

Currently, even number deals 20-30 HP damage to both units. Each difference point changes it by 5 on both directions. So a 2 point difference means that the unit with more strength takes 10-20 HP damage, while the other takes 30-40 HP. Min damage is 5-10 and to "one-shot" you need a difference of at least 16.
 
Yep, that's how it is. 2 point difference does the same HP damage always.

Currently, even number deals 20-30 HP damage to both units. Each difference point changes it by 5 on both directions. So a 2 point difference means that the unit with more strength takes 10-20 HP damage, while the other takes 30-40 HP. Min damage is 5-10 and to "one-shot" you need a difference of at least 16.

Thanks for confirming.

I like it. Fairly simple. The above sounds like something that should be covered in a tutorial or expandable tool tips when the time comes.
 
Thanks for confirming.

I like it. Fairly simple. The above sounds like something that should be covered in a tutorial or expandable tool tips when the time comes.

Yeah, being simple makes it easy to keep in your head and play with it. And I really like how it work as it makes positioning much more important:

upload_2020-8-27_17-40-11.png
 
Wow, and I thought I played it a lot at 9 hours!

Main feedback from me is that the combat UI needs work, but everyone already said that. I think also that, when in combat, I would prefer if the area NOT in combat was the area greyed out, rather than the area in combat. The terrain is so beautiful and gives a lot of important visual cues, so I am actually more confused by looking at the minimalist combat terrain because I am so used to looking at the normal terrain. And as for the beauty, I think zooming in on combat is a great time to appreciate the wonderful terrain art!

A reminder to consider assigning an Administrator when first creating a new city would be appreciated.

@Elhoim How did you get the Attack Prediction to show you what would happen if attacking from the far tile? If I hovered over a unit it would give me the first picture from the closest tile, and I couldn't get it to show me from a different tile unless I moved there first. PS: Also I loved Age of Decadence, and I look forward to Colony Ship =)
 
@Elhoim How did you get the Attack Prediction to show you what would happen if attacking from the far tile? If I hovered over a unit it would give me the first picture from the closest tile, and I couldn't get it to show me from a different tile unless I moved there first.

I found out that holding right click on the movement destination tile + moving the mouse towards the enemy shows the attack from that direction, and executes it as one action when you let it go (IIRC, as I can't check anymore :()

PS: Also I loved Age of Decadence, and I look forward to Colony Ship =)

Thank you! I'm really glad to hear it. I'm working on it as we speak, we just implemented the map screen, hooking it to the levels :D
 
I found out that holding right click on the movement destination tile + moving the mouse towards the enemy shows the attack from that direction, and executes it as one action when you let it go (IIRC, as I can't check anymore :()

I was only able to do that with the main map, not the combat movement. Maybe I was just doing it wrong. As long as it is possible and intuitive (which I found the main map's version, so if it is similar then it is intuitive), then I'm satisfied.



Thank you! I'm really glad to hear it. I'm working on it as we speak, we just implemented the map screen, hooking it to the levels :D
Good luck!
 
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