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The OpenDev/Preview Thread

Discussion in 'Humankind by Amplitude' started by Revanchist, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    Awesome on the right-clicking thingy... I was wondering how you did it ;-)

    And you know what... I'm a long long time RPG player, and have been looking for a Crpg to give me a little variety from Civ6, and have been having trouble finding one since I finished playing Witcher3 and Divine Divinity 2, I'm going to give Age of Decadence a whirl ;-) I just watched the 20 mins combat guide on steam, I think
    that I'm ripe for a heavy stats influenced hard core rpg game ;-) I know it's been out for many years, but i'd honestly never really heard about it, so...
     
    Atlas627 and Elhoim like this.
  2. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    I hope you like it! If you have any questions feel free to PM me. The learning curve can be quite steep, but the game is designed to be highly replayable, with the story completely changing in terms of quests. So it might be good to start with a fully combat focused character, until you get the hang of the system (spend consumables, you'll need it), and then branch into different kinds of characters. You can make a speech focused one and finish the game without ever getting into a fight.

    Anyway, enough OT. I miss Humankind :(
     
    mitsho, Atlas627 and tedhebert like this.
  3. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Open Dev has ruined me for Civ.

    This week-end I wanted to give the new "random tech tree" in civ6 a try and it was fun, the discovery aspect of where each tech was and the mental gymnastics how the link could make sense were interesting. So I can definitely see a little randomness inserted into a tech tree in the future (not a total shuffle like in civ6, since that makes the tree look unnatural). But what really wrecked my game on Sunday is the movement of units. I had an island off the coast with barbs on it which I wanted to settle. I had to move my three units by hand and land them. Due to movement rules that was hard and I lost one of them. I caught myself thinking how much better it would have been to be able to move one army, land it and have one fight against that whole barb tribe. Instead, the invasion took around a 100 years in game terms. Then a few turns later, the Mapuche invaded me "surprisingly" and now every turn took so much longer. I had intentionally neglected my military, but they could not manage to even kill one of my inferior units. So after I repelled the invasion, I quit: I had no goal left and I was just so annoyed at having to move those 10+ units.

    So tldr: I couldn't get back into the micro-heavy movement of that many units and having the tactical battle map on the strategic one in civ6 after playing OpenDev.
     
  4. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    After the OpenDev I set up a game of Civ, as I kinda needed a historical 4X fix. Modded it to be a city every 6 tiles in a huge map with 20+ civs and 18 city states and no settlers, as what I hate the most is city management when it's a lot of cities (plus kinda trying to represent the territories from Humankind). So the game was cities with lot of space plus buffer zones between them for combat. Was quite fine, all in all.

    But the core design ideas are definitely not my cup of tea. Civ VI is a fine game, but even before Humankind or Old World the design choices didn't align with my ideas. Like every system being shoehorned into being a competition (great people, religions, etc) or yields being way too detached of what they are trying to represent, appearing out of nowhere due to wonders and such. Or systems being designed in isolation, with rules filled with holes everywhere and not interacting with other systems, mostly because they were designed as "counters" to certain players actions/strategies.

    Everything added up takes me out of the idea of building a civilization to stand the test of time, which is something that Humankind seems to be nailing so far. Every system is well tied with one another, and I love that they are not going into the extreme competition territory, by allowing each civ to develop its own religion, or even take over a foreign one as its own.
     
  5. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    That's kinda ironic though, since competitions are good for multiplayer because it allows interaction that isn't war (and possibly elimination), but Humankind will be much better for multiplayer with the simultaneous turns built into the design.
     
  6. Catoninetales_Amplitude

    Catoninetales_Amplitude Prince

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    Many of Humankind's systems do have an element of competition, but generally not in a "first to the goalpost" manner. For example, the spread of religion as revealed in the recent video is competitive in a sense, but there are no fixed thresholds to meet.
     
  7. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    Exactly, that's the kind of competition I prefer, plus I believe it allows for easier/more interesting balance.
     
  8. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Race conditions are generally not great unless they are short enough or frequent enough that they are always actually competitive, so I don't mind a lack of them. The race to get to the next era so you can pick a Culture is a good example of a worthy race condition, since it basically resets every era and it is not strictly better to complete the race *as fast as possible*, but just ensure you come in first place (which means you will happily let it become competitive by waiting around for others to catch up while you collect more stars in the current era).

    I think you guys have the right idea, here.
     
  9. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    Interestings facts about the OPENDEV: ;-)

     
  10. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

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    Again, excellent artwork!
     
  11. 123john321

    123john321 Warlord

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    I like the Sonic the Hedgehog and Sega Genesis easter egg artwork in the playtime section. Makes sense since Sega is the publisher. Wonder what event will feature that artwork ;)
     
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  12. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

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    Event or culture card? ;)
     
  13. FinalDoomsday

    FinalDoomsday Prince

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    Great catch I missed that! A rare event for contempoary Japan as an easter egg? Haha.
     
  14. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

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    A panel about the results of the OpenDev scenarios and feedback:

     
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  15. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    Amplitude studios posted a blog on the changes they are working on based on the OpenDev feedback. It looks like they are doing a lot of meaningful improvements:

    Common OpenDev Feedback and Plans
    • Many OpenDev participants reported that the option to attach outposts to cities was difficult to find and use, so we are working on several improvements to the UI. Attaching will be possible from both outposts and cities and display a list of possible targets.
    • To help players understand their economy and manage their cities, we are also improving the tooltips for resource incomes and working on the organization of the city management screen.
    • The battle map received a lot of critique regarding its presentation and readability. We are working to improve the visuals of the battle overlay and the fog of war, and plan to implement additional feedback regarding terrain and its effects (especially forests and rivers), elevation differences, movement range, zone of control, and line of sight. We are also considering an option to disable the battle overlay and view the fully detailed 3D terrain instead to allow you to immerse yourself in the world.
    • Many players have voiced concerns about the pacing and duration of combat. We’re working on a system in which you no longer need to wait for animations to finish before issuing the next order, drastically increasing the speed at which you can take your combat turns. We are also continuing to work on an Instant Resolution feature for players who want to "skip" a battle.
    • We are also improving the visual and sound effects to make the combat animations feel more impactful and satisfying.
    • Deployment Zones and Reinforcements were difficult to understand for many of our participants, and we are working to provide both clearer rules and better feedback for these systems.
    • The "Capture the Flag" system was a frequent point of discussion. While we want to retain this system to prevent kiting and put pressure on the attacker to act, we will make an effort to present this system in a more immersive way.
    • As the impact of walls during sieges was not clear to many players, we are tweaking their visual presentation and are examining changes to their effects.
    • To make combat strength and damage easier to understand, we are working on how damage predictions and results are displayed, with a stronger emphasis on the combat strength difference that governs the damage.
    • In our ongoing effort to balance the combat, we are examining the balance of ranged and melee units, considering a further division of unit classes to make unit roles more easily identifiable in battle through different icons, and refining unit abilities to better match the behavior many testers expected.

    https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/humankind/blogs/742-opendev-feedback-and-plans

    Thanks @Catoninetales_Amplitude for listening to the fans!
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  16. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

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  17. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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  18. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    That's some really refined diplomacy options, especially Tolerate Skirmishes - diplomacy should not be limited to only full war and full peace. Love them.
     
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  19. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    Yeah, "tolerate skirmishes" is a great option. It should allow those interesting, tense geopolitical crises where you are close to war, maybe fighting between small armies here and there, but not full blown war yet.
     
  20. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    The treaties are different when you are in an alliance:

     
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