The origin of the white man!

[HamaticBabylon]

This thread will talk about the origins of the Aryan barbarians that lived in east central Asia.

I think that the white man came from albinism. Think about it, is the white man a mutation of the black man? Seeing as though the black has all the physical advantages over other white races. White man can't tolerate the hot climates, or they will get skin cancer.

This is not a racist thread, but rather exploring the identity of the white race.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Seeing that humans originated in Africa I would expect the first men to have been "black" or something close to it.

As humans migrated north, the environment was more and more favorable to those with lighter skin, since the amount of sunlight decreased. Individuals with dark skin could absorb far less sunlight and therefore died of things such as rickets, causing natural selection towards whites.

Keep in mind, though, that all the while humans in Africa were not holding steady; they were developing as well, simply to African conditions.

 

[thestonesfan]

It seems like an obvious case of adapting to your climate, but why then are people living in the Mesopotamia and Egypt lighter than people living in Middle Africa? It's just as hot and sunny there, if not more so.

I suppose it would indicate that people migrated north, got white, then moved back south to the fertile crescent.

 

[luiz]

To say that some black people who migrated north became white because of the climate is lamarckism, and thus incorrect.

There is NO adaption to the environment. What happens is that the fitter will survive, while the others will die before procreation, and thus with time a certain characteristic will become dominant in that area.

The probable origin of the white race is a tribe of albino africans that migrated north, and supported well the conditions of Europe. The people of Northern Europe look almost like albinos untill today, while the ones in Southern Europe, due to racial mixing, do not.

BTW, to say that the africans have "physicall advatange" over other races is about as nonsensical as to say that the the "aryans" are intellectually superior. The strongest man on Earth(in terms of weight-lifting) is a bulgarian(who for some reason is on the turkish olympic team).

Finally, the term aryan is not considered scientific at all, and the old story of the "aryän conquerors", who dominated all the way from Europe through India, is a myth. In sanskrit as well as persian, aryan means noble, and that's probably what caused some confusion among the 19th century historians who created all the theory of "aryan rule".

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Moderator Action: Moved to History.

 

[thestonesfan]

I didn't know you could be a "mixed" albino.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

This thread will talk about the origins of the Aryan barbarians that lived in east central Asia.

The furthest east speakers of the Indo-European languages came was Xinjiang, the so-called Tocharians. Note that this is in reference to language, rather than race.

IIRC, 'white' men arose fr a genetic mutation, which resulted in their particular skin pigmentation (or lack of), somewhere in north Europe a few thousand years ago.

 

[luiz]

I didn't know you could be a "mixed" albino.

An albino would be someone with a skin genotype along those lines "aa aa aa aa", while a dark black would be "AA AA AA AA", and the people between the two extremes would have some "A" and some "a".

Now, the modern days albinos are not population group like the old european migrants, they are people with a recessive disease, and thus there's no way(that I know of) that a mixed offspring can be born(you either are born albino or non-albino) , because albinism is caused by genes that unable the production of melanine. However northern europeans don't have these genes, just a healthy "aa aa aa aa" genotype that can have mixed offspring. Why? I don't know.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Just because Africans are black today, and the human race has an African origin, doesnt mean that the first humans were black. White people didnt emerge from a tribe of albinos. Lighter skin was probably just a mutation that happened to a geographically isolated group of humans. Same thing with all the physical differences between the 'races' of humanity. Remember that the small bands of humans that drifted out of Africa and into Asia and Europe were unbelievably isolated. Any mutation that occured to one of these groups, whether it be the epicanthic fold of the Mongoloids or the dark skin of Africans, would have been strengthened through generations of inbreeding within the small group.

 

[stormbind]

luiz, your theory is not sound because (1) the albinos would not have survived before travelling, and (2) white people are not ablino anyway.

SeleucusNicator has suggested a most logical explanation. That is, dark skin is not advantageous in colder or less sunny conditions. What you need to note is that the early tribes couldn't pop down to the corner shop for vitamin tablets, and there were no additives in their drinking water, and no governments or health authorities to recommend specific diets.

Under those primitive/natural conditions, the disadvantages for having the wrong colour skin would be far more noticeable than they are today.

In theory, you should find that very north europeans or eskimo tribes have stocky bodies with shorter fingers which cut down on heat loss (reduced surface area) and the inverse in equatorial tribes. This may not hold true because humans move and resettle very quickly but it's theory and you might find some evidence to support it.

In theory, you should find that that tribes from desert regions store more water in their fat and such like. I don't know if you can find evidence to support this.

Differences go far beyond skin colour, and they may not make much difference between individuals but lots of tiny "tweaks" add up over a whole tribe and a few generations to make a fairly signifant impact on their survival rates.

 

[stormbind]

It would be realistic to assume the first humans were dark skinned, because all the other apes from Africa are dark skinned.

If the ancestors have dark skin, and dark skin is advantageous, then current day man is going to have dark skin - it's the story of evolution and you cannot change the laws of science just because you would prefer early man to be white.

 

[luiz]

You people are full of lamarckist ideas

Just because white skin is is slightly favourable in cold weather, it does not mean that black people who migrated there would become white. Black skinned people are perfectly able to live long enough to procreate in Scandinavia, and thus natural selection is NOT responsible for the white race. Really, the only thing that makes sense is that europeans came from a tribe of albino africans.

And the theory that a mutation that offers no advantage at all(like the typicall eye form of the asians) happened to a whole population is absurd. The most probable theory is that asians already looked like that when a very small number[/u] of them migrated to Asia, and because all asians are descendent of them, they kept those traits.

@stormbind:"pure"white people would be just like albinos.
@DP: The first humanoids were in fact blacks.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

You people are full of lamarckist ideas

Just because white skin is is slightly favourable in cold weather, it does not mean that black people who migrated there would become white. Black skinned people are perfectly able to live long enough to procreate in Scandinavia, and thus natural selection is NOT responsible for the white race. Really, the only thing that makes sense is that europeans came from a tribe of albino africans.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I cant think of a mammal that lives in or around the Poles that is black. They all have white or very light colored fur.

And the theory that a mutation that offers no advantage at all(like the typicall eye form of the asians) happened to a whole population is absurd. .

It didnt happen at once to everybody. First it began in one family unit, expanded to the tribe over time, that out into the greater Clan of peoples living in the area.

@DP: The first humanoids were in fact blacks

 

[Bozo Erectus]

@DP: The first humanoids were in fact blacks.

How do we know that? By studying the genes and chromosomes of ancient people and comparing them with modern humans?

 

[Daniel Khan]

The white (Caucasian) race came from Japeth. Son of Noah.

 

[thestonesfan]

The rarity of albinos seems to debunk that theory, luiz. How could there be a whole tribe of them?

But, some process of gradual loss of pigmentation also raises questions. After all, eskimos have a darker skin tone than any european peoples. Shouldn't they be lighter?

I think our more immediate ancestors were not black, but had a lighter skin tone. Some went to Africa and became darker, some went to Europe and became lighter.

 

[HamaticBabylon]

The white (Caucasian) race came from Japeth. Son of Noah.

Excellent, you started from the beginning. I'm glad your don't except this evolution crap.

Japeth=Gog=Magog

 

[Mise]

I don't think that your skin pigment can be lost simply by living in a cold climate for long enough, i.e. I see no advantage or disadvantage from having black or white skin in Europe, so don't see how natural selection could be responsible for a white European race. The albino theory also seems flawed, since, as someone has already mentioned, the chances of this happening is so slim. So perhaps the first humans were a mixed race, who, by a combination of genetics and human nature, became racially divided into tribes that spread. At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if ethnic cleansing was to blame . Well, actually, I would...

 

[storealex]

Eskimos have darker skin than Europeans because otherwise the would get sunburned (Im half Eskimo my self) The snow in the polar regions works like a mirror, reflecting the sun. Eskimos are also small and "round" so the don't loose body heat.
Natural selection or mutation, I don't know, but I think it's a combination of both.
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[EdwardTking]

There is little benefit in wasting energy at the cellular level on producing the pigment melanin to protect against the sun's UV light if the people are wrapped up in wooly mammoth fur to keep warm which would block the light.

The native humans of St Kilda (island off Scotland) developed hook like toes; that helped them to collect birds eggs from cliffs, where others without hooked toes could not safely reach.