[GS] The Ottomans Discussion Thread

[Lord Lakely]

I'm confused, because I was expecting to see a "First Look: Turkey" instead. Does somebody care to explain me why it's referred as Ottoman civilization and not Turkish civilization?

Civ is pretty inconsistent in that regard, but on this case it specifically refers to the Ottoman dynasty, so no other Turkish empires such as Atatürk's Republic or AoE2's (Seljuq) Turks. Definitely not the entire Turkish Civ as a whole.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

England should’ve been the Legacy of Westminster.

Wut... Why?

Regarding the Ottomans, I'm also not a domination player so they won't be high up the list of new civs to try for me but it's still a great design.

And by great I simply mean interesting, not powerful. They've done well with the civs in GS, each will feel quite distinct, which is not the case with all civs in the game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Suleiman's LUA has little to do with him. Other than the specific grand vizier being his IRL friend, he wasn't notable for either the grand vizier position or the Janissary corps. I'm not sure, for example, what a hypothetical alternate leader of the Ottomans would be left with. They wouldn't get the governor or the Janissary.

Considering Hayreddin Barbarossa was active during his reign, I think they should have moved the Barbary Corsair into his LUA. This would be in line with extra UUs being tied to the leader (Alexander and his Companion Cavalry, Roosevelt and his Roughriders, Matthias and his Black Legion, etc.). The Janissary could then become the civ UU. Grand Vizier could have moved to become the CUA (with an additional effect to make up for the loss of the Janissary).

Looking up information on him it was interesting to see that his vizier grew up as a slave in the empire. This might be a reason why the Janissary goes in with the LUA, even though I'm not sure if he was one or not.
I agree though it would make more since if the Corsair was his UU but I also don't think it will matter since I doubt we will get another official Ottoman leader.

I'm confused, because I was expecting to see a "First Look: Turkey" instead. Does somebody care to explain me why it's referred as Ottoman civilization and not Turkish civilization?

Most likely for continuity reason. It's been called the Ottomans every game they have been in. Then again we're getting Phoenicia over Carthage, but that might be different.

 

[steveg700]

I'm confused, because I was expecting to see a "First Look: Turkey" instead. Does somebody care to explain me why it's referred as Ottoman civilization and not Turkish civilization?

I predict Someone will care enough to seize an opportunity to offer a pedantic explanation.

Suffice to say, probably a similar reason as to why the Roman Empire is called "Rome" instead of "Italy".

 

[Lord Lakely]

England's ability should be Magna Carta: Receive a free Economic Policy slot in any Government. +1 production and +1 housing from Farms that are part of a Farming Triangle. Farming Triangles cannot be pillaged.


Workshop of the World is fine, though?

 

[WillowBrook]

I think the more interesting question here is... why are the Ottomans the only Civ that can put a Governor into a foreign city?

Seriously. FXS need to take another look at Governors. There's some good stuff, but overall it's a criminally under developed mechanic. Here's hoping this UG is an experiment before FXS overhaul Governors more generally. #thirdexpansion #onemoreexpansion

Agreed!

I'm confused, because I was expecting to see a "First Look: Turkey" instead. Does somebody care to explain me why it's referred as Ottoman civilization and not Turkish civilization?

I may be totally off here, but I'm under the impression that, in English, the Ottoman empire was not referred to as Turkey; only the modern nation gets that name. And this civ represents a bigger empire than modern Turkey as well. Also, they were called Ottoman in Civ V.

It's not entirely consistent (why the modern name Indonesia, for example), but for many Americans and Western Europeans, Turkey is perceived as quite different from the Ottoman empire, even though there was geographical overlap.

 

[AriochIV]

Also, there were a variety of Turkish civilization before and after that bore no resemblance at all to the Ottoman empire. Hittites, anyone? Byzantium? Troy?

 

[Lord Lakely]

The Hittites aren't Turks. At all.

 

[God of Kings]

The Janissary in Civ VI won't heal like crazy as in Civ V anymore (Scythian military units do that instead).

However, the Ottomans in Civ VI are no joke, unlike the Ottomans in Civ V pre-G&K.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

A discount on siege units as well as a 7 movement "no cost" coastal raider that arrives early. What's not to like?

 

[Ziad]

I'm confused, because I was expecting to see a "First Look: Turkey" instead. Does somebody care to explain me why it's referred as Ottoman civilization and not Turkish civilization?

Same reason it's not going to be "First Look: Lebanon". Those were different cultures and times, even if they are our ancestors whose heritage we may or may not honor.

 

[sonicmyst]

I think Carl would quit if they did that to him.

I would imagine that Carl is the one seated along with Ed and Pete. Someone else is driving and Carl will frequently interrupt the discussion because he plays better. Lol.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Wow, Suleiman is hawt. I am having a man crush on a video game character now...

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Mmm. The design is good but one thing thus really bugs me is the name of the abilities.

Great Turkish Bombard? More than 700 years of history and that’s all they could come up with to represent the civilisation?

Why is that a problem? It pays homage to the Great Turkish Bombard, a siege engine that Suleiman I would have actually used, as well as many, many others, since it was still in working order in the 1800s.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Why is that a problem? It pays homage to the Great Turkish Bombard, a siege engine that Suleiman I would have actually used, as well as many, many others, since it was still in working order in the 1800s.

If anyone plays Europa Universalis IV, the Ottomans have a special Age of Discovery ability, and it's +33% to siege. I mean, Mehmed the Conqueror took Constantinople in 1453, which hadn't easily fallen to other sieges before. The Ottomans also sieged Vienna in 1683, so... seems like they were really into sieging.

 

[Disgustipated]

Whether or not a janissary can be upgraded to is a question for Thursday.

I'm certain they cannot. Everyone is assuming they can which is driving me nuts. Why else would they get a free promotion? The promotion is there so players don't start too far behind with their fresh units, especially since this is a late bloomer civ anyways. Yes, I know you can use this civ early, especially if you choose your unique governor with your first governor slot, but for the most part they are a late bloomer civ, at least domination wise.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I'm certain they cannot. Everyone is assuming they can which is driving me nuts. Why else would they get a free promotion? The promotion is there so players don't start too far behind with their fresh units, especially since this is a late bloomer civ anyways. Yes, I know you can use this civ early, especially if you choose your unique governor with your first governor slot, but for the most part they are a late bloomer civ, at least domination wise.

I'm nearly certain as well. For era score only IMO.

 

[PhilBowles]

I'm certain they cannot. Everyone is assuming they can which is driving me nuts. Why else would they get a free promotion? The promotion is there so players don't start too far behind with their fresh units, especially since this is a late bloomer civ anyways. Yes, I know you can use this civ early, especially if you choose your unique governor with your first governor slot, but for the most part they are a late bloomer civ, at least domination wise.

There have been unique units with free promotions in Civ games before; they simply don't get the promotion if they upgrade unless it's a unique promotion. There's no reason at all to expect the Jannisary doesn't follow the same rules as every other unique unit that replaces an upgrade chain unit unless we learn otherwise.

 

[DWilson]

I'm certain they cannot. Everyone is assuming they can which is driving me nuts. Why else would they get a free promotion? The promotion is there so players don't start too far behind with their fresh units, especially since this is a late bloomer civ anyways. Yes, I know you can use this civ early, especially if you choose your unique governor with your first governor slot, but for the most part they are a late bloomer civ, at least domination wise.

I asked Ed Beach on Twitter, but expect I won't get an answer (usually when I do, it would have already come). We'll get clarity in the livestream.

 

[DWilson]

There have been unique units with free promotions in Civ games before; they simply don't get the promotion if they upgrade unless it's a unique promotion. There's no reason at all to expect the Jannisary doesn't follow the same rules as every other unique unit that replaces an upgrade chain unit unless we learn otherwise.

I would note that unless the AI never uses them (and thus they simply remain available), capturing Alexander's Hetairoi (as Mongolia) get the added free promotion each time.

That's the closest I can think of that applies.