[GS] The Ottomans Discussion Thread

[local_hero]

I'm not a domination player but didn't seem that OP to me. I assume you can't place Ibrahim in a civilization you are at war with so the Grand Vizier promotion doesn't seem too powerful. I like the left side of his promotion tree, with the promotions giving an ally increased military production, combat bonuses and increased alliance leveling.

I think the Zulu, Mongols and Macedonia are better than the Ottomans to pursue a domination victory. The Ottomans might be better than those civs to pursue other victory types though because they easily get happiness bonuses in their cities?

I think the Aztecs are stronger than the Ottomans for all victory types, but perhaps they are just more OP than the Ottomans in that case? All these domination civs get their bonuses before the Ottomans too so...

 

[Giskler]

Meenakshi Amman Temple.

I'm pretty sure.

That's a good bet.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Yep. I'm not fond of Super uniques either. Upgrading is much, much superior.

It starts with a free promotion. I am curious if it does also get an additional promotion when a unit is upgraded into a Jannisary.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

The new wonder looks like the Sri Ranganathaswamy Temple to me

 

[Ziad]

That music. Love it. I wanted that flute (the nay) for Phoenicia. Now I wonder what they'll get.

 

[Naeshar]

I wonder.
Ottomans are clearly geared for war, but not sooner than classical (catapults) and not later than industrial (obsolete janisssaries). The human player will be forced to dominate between these times, plus janissaries shall be built in conquered cities only. Thus you need to get one city before renaissance and lots of gold. Later the conquest will be limited to Ibrahim establishment.
I feel that the AI will completely fail at this strategy and be an easy target for human players before that. Seems like one-trick-pony. Go on a great conquering spree or die small. Or you conquer much in the renaissance and then proceed to any VC with that lead.
Also, preferable victory conditions Domination/Diplomacy? (because of Ibrahim's alliance bonus)

 

[Giskler]

More Mud Volcano wonder, looks like 3 tiles?

 

[WillowBrook]

I'm no warmonger, but next time I want to play a domination game, this is the Civ I'll pick. A nice variety of adjustments to gameplay.

 

[Ziad]

Yeah, so this is not really my cup of tea. Suleiman seems like the kind of neighbor I would eliminate early, even if I were playing a mostly peaceful game.

I mean I was planning to destroy him every time I see him so this works for me.

 

[pgm123]

I agree. I was hoping for a Science focused Civ since we have Maori, Canada and Sweden who all perform war at Culture.

Phoenicians would make a logical science civ, fwiw. Science and Economy.

A more correct translation would be "Caesar of the Romans". "Rum" as a topographical term referred mostly to Anatolia via Arabic providence, while "Rum" is also the ethnic term used for Greek-speaking Anatolians/Eastern Orthodox folk in general. The title was taken up for legitimacy purposes (the Patriarch of Constantinople nominally "coronated" each Sultan to pledge allegiance).

I should have said "of the Romans." That was the traditional designation before the Ottoman conquest as well. Charlemagne was King of the Franks and Emperor of the Romans (Imperator and Augustus). For France, Philip II started the trend of King of France, but after 1791, it went back to King of the French (or Emperor of the French for Napoleon). Caesar of the Romans was one of the many, many titles of Suleiman. He claimed maternal descent from a Roman Emperor, but it's impossible to verify it. The Quran refers to Constantinople as "Rome," but that's probably only partially connected to the desire to conquer it.

Kayser'i Rum : the ottoman sultans declared themselves to be the heirs of Rome after the conquest of Constantinople ( since the Byzantines had declared themselves the heirs previously ).
A warmonger Civ that starts after gunpowder in a snowball game. Granted if they start rolling as soon as they have researched gunpowder no one will be able to stop them but still considering how much alexander and gilgabro can have snowballed out of controlled not sure if it will ever be a top tier civ.

The Byzantines were less the heirs and more of the continuation (do we say that Tiberius was the heir to the Roman empire?). Suleiman made two claims to Rome--one through a distant ancestor and the other by conquest. By conquest, he took the titles like he took the titles of Custodian of the Holy Cities of Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem and Padisha of the Three Cities of Istanbul, Edirne, and Bursa. The Russian rulers also claimed to have inherited the title of Roman emperor through blood.

Minor point, I guess, but does he get the era score when he gets 7 governors out, or does he have to get all 8?

Great question for the live stream (or Twitter)

 

[Giskler]

 

[Giskler]

Happy I got this one right

 

[Giskler]

Alternate angle of the temple.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I assume you can't place Ibrahim in a civilization you are at war with so the Grand Vizier promotion doesn't seem too powerful.

I don't think you can make that assumption. We saw nothing to suggest that you can't place him in a civ you are at war with. In fact, placing him in a civ you are at war with is kinda the whole point of the promotion. It would be pretty weak if you couldn't.

 

[Leucarum]

They seem pretty good but also kinda bland. A good domination civ will presumably place highly in the tier rankings but we have enough of them that I'm a bit 'meh' at this point.

 

[Ziad]

I dare say that every civ in this expansion (with the possible exception of Canada) is better designed than almost all the older civs (with the exception of a few) in terms of cohesiveness. I wonder how much of a redo some of the older civs have had.

I think they're pretty content with some civs being more basic in design than others.

 

[Giskler]

Aerial view of the Meenakshi temple grounds.

 

[Giskler]

Aerial view of Sri Ranganathaswamy Temple.

 

[drubell]

It's good that Firaxis designed a domination civ that is actually creatively different than other domination civs. A lot of the previous domination civs were just like "okay you get a strong swordsman and some sort of bonus to manage multiple cities without a massive amenity hit and we're done here."

The design seems pretty clear here. The Ottomans want to build catapults very early and conquer at least one city, though can probably just wipe out a civ if desired. With cheaper siege units, and a governor that boosts unit production and the governor promotion that boosts +10 on walls so that catapults are actually really scary. Once you've done this, you're going to want to start building up your infrastructure and build Commercial Hubs to maintain amenities from the unique bank in the future.

Once you get to jannisaries you can go on another free conquest. Since they replace musketmen, I'm curious if I can just build swordsmen, move the swordsmen to a foreign city, and they upgrade to jannisaries? I wouldn't want to have to hard build them, but I guess they are cheap either way.

The corsair is also nice if just for the earlier ocean exploration. I'm not fond of privateers in general but I'd still try it out to meet the neighbors.

Overall, the strength of the civ is very dependent on the amount of hammers the land has to work with, and since the Ottomans don't have any special bonus to production (outside of siege units and unit production in the Vizier's city), you can have a really awful Ottoman game if you're stuck in mostly grassland or plains. Alternatively, you're really going to have a bad time if your neighbor has bonuses of their own and keep you from conquering early (I'm thinking Macedon, for example) because this civ sucks if you aren't holding foreign land by the time the Renaissance kicks in.

Anyway, again, I appreciate that Firaxis designed a military civ that actually has some creativity built into it this time. There's a lot of other military civs in the game that aren't as creative.

 

[Ondolindë]

I’m not into domination much, but a recent game with the Aztecs (had played with them before and culture won) and first time with the Zulu have given me a fun and different experience. So, I’m truly excited with the Ottomans. It just feels fun and different, especially having Ibrahim and their UU. Have to think when I’ll play them!