[GS] The Ottomans Discussion Thread

[Weraptor]

Civ looks great, but the model and texture work on the Janissary units looks horrendous, almost sub-par modding level*

The model is probably dated way back to the scenario that came with the Polish civ.

 

[Melliores]

@steveg700 -

Well, the Janissaires on paper were employed by the state, even if that employment lasted several decades and there was no easy way out of the Corps. They did receive education, pay, lodgings and uniforms, which was in contrast to the regular army, where many had to provide for most of their equipment (back in the 18-19th century). I wouldn't say they were a slave caste, more like an instrument to bleed the conquered peoples and use their own children to keep them under the Empire's heel.

Funny story, in some of the countries on the Balkan peninsula calling someone a "Yeniçer" means that he is a traitor to his family and people.

The best implementation of the Janissary unit in my opinion would be that it can not be upgraded to but can upgrade to the Industrial mêlée unit. That would make them feel like the new army they were and stop the player from gaming the system by upgrading existing swordsmen to them for the extra promotion. Also would like to add a higher maintenance cost and possibly make it faith per turn instead of gold ? That can limit the total number of units you can build, as they certainly were deployed on a limited scale.

The whole Janissary corps had that issue of not really knowing its true identity which was both a blessing and a curse to the Divan and Sultan.

 

[Tobizi]

They are only 120 prod - half the cost of a musketman and only about 33% more than a swordsman. By the time they come around, they should be quick to hard built, especially with the unique governor ability and the policy card.

And if you can upgrade Swordsman into Janissary that would be quite cheap esp. with Professional Army. So you get a free promotion and more power for much less gold (than regular upgrade into musketman)!? That seems a little op to me, hence I'm not sure if you really can upgrade into Janissaries.

 

[ezzlar]

And if you can upgrade Swordsman into Janissary that would be quite cheap esp. with Professional Army. So you get a free promotion and more power for much less gold (than regular upgrade into musketman)!? That seems a little op to me, hence I'm not sure if you really can upgrade into Janissaries.

That would also make the consume one pop requirement stupid if you could just prebuild a lot of swordsmen and then upgrade.

 

[Victoria]

So for any ancient start they will face the same issues as other later civs as being vanilla until T100+
Those Janissaries will not be able to be upgrades, I guarantee it, few UU are and the way they designed them.
The fact that a UU is so cheap to produce rather than more expensive is great, they should recognise this for other UU’s, yes they made compensations for cheapness but they are easily overcome and merely add nice flavour.
The raider is nice, one raider for the era points and sneak in for the siege, raiding coasts has never been that beneficial.
The cheaper bombard is not a biggie as people upgrade but the extra strength is nice.
The governor +10 may sound nice but with 5 turns to take effect it will slow a fast army... but great for a slow one as long as you are not still building units.

The +4 loyalty is strong, very when combined with full pop. There is a 20 cap on loyalty and you can normally float yourself above 10... this means cities will not flip fast for you unless you have amenity issues


Compared to early civs with all game bonuses meh, consider you will get a golden medi Mapuche will counter your bonuses but there is always Spain, Georgia, Norway and England so lots of easy meat.

A middle of the road Dom faced civ with nice looking units and uniqueish style.... I would rather they put in a diplomatic governor for all.
Not a good deity civ unless you want the survivalist challenge or a later start.
Nice to see other late starters added and some nice unique traits, all in all an A for effort.

 

[tedhebert]

The cheaper bombard is not a biggie as people upgrade but the extra strength is nice.
The governor +10 may sound nice but with 5 turns to take effect it will slow a fast army... but great for a slow one as long as you are not still building units.
.

someone in this thread has stated noticing that he's like Victor, a 3 turns instead of a 5 turns to establish... so there's that ;-)

 

[Victoria]

someone in this thread has stated noticing that he's like Victor, a 3 turns instead of a 5 turns to establish... so there's that ;-)

If that’s the case then they are a leetle bit stronger but it’s not like a French +9, Mapuche +10 or a Mongol +12.
A civ that is strong when used by a player but not when AI based.

 

[Deggial]

There is no details to the uniforms, boring design ( if you even can call it that ), monocolors, no interesting shading, technically "poor", at first I thought they were wearing clogs.
This free to play mobile game ( dominations ) got a much better artistic take on the janissaries unit than Firaxis has.

Who cares, if they seem to be historical more accurate, though?

Aaaaaand ...

Spoiler :

...

 

[zelsphere]

Who cares, if they seem to be historical more acurate, though?

...

Ah, my bad! Didn't know they went for the historical correct "LEGO look"

 

[Steamboat Willem]

If that’s the case then they are a leetle bit stronger but it’s not like a French +9, Mapuche +10 or a Mongol +12.
A civ that is strong when used by a player but not when AI based.

Ottoman siege gets +20 attacking the districts of a city Ibrahim is in, other units get +15.

Corsairs are Medieval, and can move after pillage. They will be hard to counter, because except Indonesia, no one has good ships at that time, and they can move out of range of land based units.

 

[LKx]

So the livestream will be about Ottomans conquering the world with GDRs?

 

[Disgustipated]

You know the video shows a janissary getting its second promotion as the free one, and as they show the historic moment for janissaries in the same cut just prior, it implies that that janissary earned the first promotion as a swordsman or warrior before being upgraded.

I'll go back and look. It's possible they clarify this via twitter today, but most likely we'll have to wait until tomorrow for confirmation.

So the livestream will be about Ottomans conquering the world with GDRs?

I might just turn the stream off if that's the case.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

If that’s the case then they are a leetle bit stronger but it’s not like a French +9, Mapuche +10 or a Mongol +12.
A civ that is strong when used by a player but not when AI based.

My only quibble with the Ottomans is that I'm afraid the AI will not be able to use them to good effect. It's nice to have a few civs with simple bonuses that are easy for the AI to use, especially domination-focussed civs that can make you pay attention to them. Most of the GS civs will require a human hand to synergize their bonuses effectively.

I'm quite impressed with the general play balance of the civs in GS. The dev team has generally avoided falling into the easy route of making each new civ a little bit more powerful than the civs that came before them.

 

[StrideColossus]

The raider is nice, one raider for the era points and sneak in for the siege, raiding coasts has never been that beneficial.

Though pillaging will be much more beneficial as it scales with age in GS. In the video the Corsair pillaged 115 science from a campus (if memory serves).

The governor +10 may sound nice but with 5 turns to take effect it will slow a fast army... but great for a slow one as long as you are not still building units.

3 turns, same as Victor.

/pedantry

 

[Victoria]

Ottoman siege gets +20 attacking the districts of a city Ibrahim is in, other units get +15.

Sure. I have 0 issue with this as I have 0 issue with knights and rams ripping through a city... which is exactly the point. My knights are fine against cities just rubbish against troops with +10 or more, sure the AI cannot play that well with them ... but realistically it is a moot issue because taking cities is not really an issue normally, even as Victoria or Tamar.

Corsairs are Medieval, and can move after pillage. They will be hard to counter, because except Indonesia, no one has good ships at that time, and they can move out of range of land based units.

Have you seen how many civs go by the sea? With how many cities and how fast do they repair looted tiles? Sure its a bonus and a loooove their move speed. They may be a bit of a pain in multiplayer because of their earlyness and invisibility, you can wreck an opponents quads, and an early sea gunship can be good, but how many do you build, they are not cheap and will be outclassed once frigates and caravels come online. I am not saying they are rubbish, I am saying the sea game is relatively dull and having taken many a sea dog and found little to pillage they end up getting parked in a strategic place for 20 turns.

Though pillaging will be much more beneficial as it scales with age in GS. In the video the Corsair pillaged 115 science from a campus (if memory serves).

Good point, 115 science is rather nice... and often they will have uni, library and campus by then so you can say 345 science in 3 turns.... pillaging is gonna wreck this game and will need a nerf one feels. I'm already playing games and ramping up my pillaging. Flip n pillage people will find hard to resist now.

/pedantry

Not at all, I had read the thread but not seen the first look when I commented, and there was a lot to read. I just do not think taking cities is that hard currently but maybe if you are behind on deity ... but then you have as I said suffered 100 turns of being a vanilla civ first.

So in light of what has been said I will possibly play them to see just how handy corsairs turn out to be but in reality Maori's look great to play for me as do Mali. I aint scared of no production.... nether will fast payers be because they rarely build mines and also appreciate the full value of gold. I'll swap 1 prod for 4 gold any day of the week. England is just rubbish still but am holding off until I see exactly what comes out, if harbors are still down a blind alley then they are still a joke.

 

[Sana Kan]

Civ looks great, but the model and texture work on the Janissary units looks horrendous, almost sub-par modding level*

Those big cartoony hands kills the unit models imo

 

[Harlequeen]

Out of curiosity, was the English monarchy truly all that unique historically? (Not that that has been a requirement in the past, just curious).

Charles I

 

[Morningcalm]

Who cares, if they seem to be historical more accurate, though?

Aaaaaand ...

Spoiler :

...

Hilariously, the Lego janissaries are (arguably) more historically accurate than their Civ VI incarnation due to the lack of beards. Janissaries were not allowed beards until the very late 16th century, and IIRC it wasn't Suleiman who allowed them. (I note the Lego janissaries do have some stubble, but only one has a full beard at least.)

 

[AmazonQueen]

It was one of the first to forego absolute monarchy and give a say in government to others. Namely oligarchal aristocrats, but later everyone.

Feudal monarchs weren't absolute.
Feudalism was a system of rights and obligations. Even a serf had some rights although ofc the higher your status the more rights you had.
I suppose there is a long history in England of resisting the monarchy becoming absolute (Magna Carta, Barons Revolt, English Civil War) unlike countries like France or Prussia.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Those big cartoony hands kills the unit models imo

EVERY unit in the game has those hands. It's because they're about a centimeter tall when you're actually playing the game on an average monitor, and any smaller/more proportional you won't be able to make out the details.