SultanRedSnake
King
Tentative UP idea: reduced cost/research bonus toward naval/exploration/colonial techs (list TBD but probably obvious).
The Portugal Thread
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AOS9001
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That would help Portugal get to badly-needed civics like bureaucracy and colonialism while doing nothing about the rest of its tech situation, which would be quite accurate. Portugal lagged behind even Spain when it came to internal economic development, law enforcement, and civic infrastructure.
Dracosolon
Emperor
That sounds a bit too specific for the UP, and could probably be replaced with just rearranging their starting techs.
But the logic could be inverted with something like: Free research points for every first contact with a non European civilization. Nothing spectacular, but something you could use in the early game to rush to your most wanted techs by contacting civs that can be reached without Caravels, and then later with the remaining civs.
But the logic could be inverted with something like: Free research points for every first contact with a non European civilization. Nothing spectacular, but something you could use in the early game to rush to your most wanted techs by contacting civs that can be reached without Caravels, and then later with the remaining civs.
I've tried several times, even on low difficulty, but 2UHV seems impossible. I've sacked five cities in India, four in Indonesia, and even Hong Kong, but I only reached halfway.
Once you've found the right strategy, the first objective is doable, even with a fair number of turns to spare.
The third also seems achievable, albeit with difficulty. You need to have a lighthouse in each city, use merchant trade for a good portion of the game before switching to free enterprise, and finally build a few feitoria, plus, obviously, the Belem Tower in Lisbon (for which I usually use a great engineer).
For the first objective, I used the following strategy:
Politics: Republic, Citizenship, and Hegemony
Quickly produce and purchase at least six longswordsmen and attack Marrakech with also a few of the initial crossbowmen. usually after the conquest of the city I change the policies to monarchy and vassallage.
Prioritize research in cartography (Compass is usually available from other civs).
Once you've obtained the cartography, use Marrakech as a factory for Bandeirantes, which can be sent to conquer Swahili and Congo even without carracks. The carracks were also to be produced in Marrakech as soon as gunpowder was discovered. While Lisbon produces settlers to found cities: one in Ghana, one on the island of Bioko, one in Angola, one on the southernmost tip of Mozambique, Muscat in Oman, and finally one in the Maldives. You then need to conquer the capital of Congo, all the Swahili cities on the coast, and Colombo. By maxing out culture for a few turns and having the cities produce culture, it's enough to reach 35% without having too many useless cities. If necessary, also conquer Mangalore in India or the Senegal area from Mali, and then return it to them as soon as possible since it's a red zone. I managed to complete it on easy mode just before 1500, in other difficulties instead always after. This tactic has been tested in epic and marathon speed but never in normal
Once you've found the right strategy, the first objective is doable, even with a fair number of turns to spare.
The third also seems achievable, albeit with difficulty. You need to have a lighthouse in each city, use merchant trade for a good portion of the game before switching to free enterprise, and finally build a few feitoria, plus, obviously, the Belem Tower in Lisbon (for which I usually use a great engineer).
For the first objective, I used the following strategy:
Politics: Republic, Citizenship, and Hegemony
Quickly produce and purchase at least six longswordsmen and attack Marrakech with also a few of the initial crossbowmen. usually after the conquest of the city I change the policies to monarchy and vassallage.
Prioritize research in cartography (Compass is usually available from other civs).
Once you've obtained the cartography, use Marrakech as a factory for Bandeirantes, which can be sent to conquer Swahili and Congo even without carracks. The carracks were also to be produced in Marrakech as soon as gunpowder was discovered. While Lisbon produces settlers to found cities: one in Ghana, one on the island of Bioko, one in Angola, one on the southernmost tip of Mozambique, Muscat in Oman, and finally one in the Maldives. You then need to conquer the capital of Congo, all the Swahili cities on the coast, and Colombo. By maxing out culture for a few turns and having the cities produce culture, it's enough to reach 35% without having too many useless cities. If necessary, also conquer Mangalore in India or the Senegal area from Mali, and then return it to them as soon as possible since it's a red zone. I managed to complete it on easy mode just before 1500, in other difficulties instead always after. This tactic has been tested in epic and marathon speed but never in normal
AOS9001
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This drives me nuts because "Regulated Trade" is literally what Portugal was doing, you couldn't even enter the Indian ocean without a permit from the Casa da India. There was a royal monopoly on all trade in Asia which merely licensed merchants. Leoreth plz.
I haven't gotten anywhere close either.
The Sebastian strategem of going after Morocco is always a gamble. I've been able to do the first goal on normal/regent several times by settling Cape Verde (and razing the Malinese city on the coast), Ghana, Sao Tome, conquering Congo's capital and Kissonde, plus a city in Mozambique and conquering Swahili. Sometimes I've managed to get a settle to Muscat if it hasn't been founded.
Personally, I'd have the first UHV be Afonso de Albuquerque's closed sea plus some other key ports in the region.
Dracosolon
Emperor
That map is pretty disorienting.
AOS9001
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It's certainly one of the stranger projections out there!
maybe we could make the 2HUV like this:
spread catholicism to 8 cities in asia
Control Malacca and Moluccas
sack 8 cities in Asia
instead the 3HUV could be:
Acquire 16 trading company resource
Generate 4000 commerce from city trade routes in Lisbona
I don't know if 4000 is too much for a single city or not very challenging... the only way would be to test it.
spread catholicism to 8 cities in asia
Control Malacca and Moluccas
sack 8 cities in Asia
instead the 3HUV could be:
Acquire 16 trading company resource
Generate 4000 commerce from city trade routes in Lisbona
I don't know if 4000 is too much for a single city or not very challenging... the only way would be to test it.
TsimTsigal
Warlord
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Regarding Portugese UP: maybe change it to the Power of Colonialism - extra commerce in capital depending on distance? Both useful and promotes Bureaucracy and Regulation.
banzay13
Emperor
Well, can confirm - 2uhv can't be done on Normal speed. You just not a so super power to that time, to terrorise Asia (good luck with Java's fleet, even fleet of privateers was sunk very quickly). You need luck, to get TC wars, not the peaceful deals. And you can't pillage or what ever 2000 gold (I got 500). 3uvh can be done with Merchant trade, well, maybe and with Regulated trade if you wan't go for 2uhv. And you probably collapse from OE and religion dusunity.
But game for Portugal became much more fun, indeed
I didn't go for Marrakesh, I was able steal Cordobo from Spain's army. And even then I didn't go for Marrakesh (I tried), coz you'll spent a lot of resources, and wont get in time with Congo and Swahilli
But game for Portugal became much more fun, indeed
I didn't go for Marrakesh, I was able steal Cordobo from Spain's army. And even then I didn't go for Marrakesh (I tried), coz you'll spent a lot of resources, and wont get in time with Congo and Swahilli
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AOS9001
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SultanRedSnake
King
Doesn't help that the Asian Gold acquired is bugged. I haven't bothered to report because I hope and request this UHV be reconsidered entirely.
Otherwise the Redist Start > Education > Natl Colllege gambit has been consistently successful (at least up to the Reg Trade nerf) to cover tech pace. Cordoba snipe is nice easy early boost depending on timing and Issy's mood and relations. Also been experimenting with settling al-Aoiun (or whatevs), running culture to steal Morocco's iron, and as it unlocks slave trade early can be buffed with settled slaves. Getting at least Aztec conqs has been my Go-To even pre-1.18. Escorial helps handle the extra upkeep combined with tech and map sales, and clinched with a GM. Research becomes marginal past the Firearms/Geography column. An open question concerns whether to run Merch or Reg Trade to hit the commerce goal. I've only run Reg Trade and have had no problems. Merch Trade seems clearly superior but the catch is that you'll end up heavy on lower yield domestic routes rather than purely Intl routes further augmented by cheap Feitorias. Oh, and Bandeirantes are now in a state of absolute Beast Mode.
Leoreth's stab at this UHV was a move in the right direction thematically but the implementation doesn't do it for me. This is a bit of a conceptual challenge of course. Though I affirm his hesitance to end up with yet another "Control Area ABC" this would at least be a safe way to go, perhaps spiced up in the details. There's also something of a Wild Card route which emphasizes the Statecraft horn of the Eastern Crusade in which shrewd alliance juggling formed a critical arm. Simplistic UHV would be a "Have X allies in X areas" etcs. Or as previously proposed, UHV 2 would get bumped back to 3, and would be an aspirational Hold the Empire game until whenever, perhaps even past Brazil's spawn date.
Finally, Buff Torre!
Otherwise the Redist Start > Education > Natl Colllege gambit has been consistently successful (at least up to the Reg Trade nerf) to cover tech pace. Cordoba snipe is nice easy early boost depending on timing and Issy's mood and relations. Also been experimenting with settling al-Aoiun (or whatevs), running culture to steal Morocco's iron, and as it unlocks slave trade early can be buffed with settled slaves. Getting at least Aztec conqs has been my Go-To even pre-1.18. Escorial helps handle the extra upkeep combined with tech and map sales, and clinched with a GM. Research becomes marginal past the Firearms/Geography column. An open question concerns whether to run Merch or Reg Trade to hit the commerce goal. I've only run Reg Trade and have had no problems. Merch Trade seems clearly superior but the catch is that you'll end up heavy on lower yield domestic routes rather than purely Intl routes further augmented by cheap Feitorias. Oh, and Bandeirantes are now in a state of absolute Beast Mode.
Leoreth's stab at this UHV was a move in the right direction thematically but the implementation doesn't do it for me. This is a bit of a conceptual challenge of course. Though I affirm his hesitance to end up with yet another "Control Area ABC" this would at least be a safe way to go, perhaps spiced up in the details. There's also something of a Wild Card route which emphasizes the Statecraft horn of the Eastern Crusade in which shrewd alliance juggling formed a critical arm. Simplistic UHV would be a "Have X allies in X areas" etcs. Or as previously proposed, UHV 2 would get bumped back to 3, and would be an aspirational Hold the Empire game until whenever, perhaps even past Brazil's spawn date.
I do like this twist that emphasizes the Capital's centrality.
Finally, Buff Torre!
All this will do is cause bugs to remain in the game.
SultanRedSnake
King
Ah crap I didnt think you'd see that for absolutely no good reason.
