The Role Playing Game Thread: Shiny Dice Roll Better!

[Ajidica]

I know a lot of us do pen and paper role playing games, but somehow we don't seem to have a thread on role playing games!

To start the discussions:

I've run into an issue when I DM games when players try and do social tests with the villain. For example, I was recently running a one-off set on Barsoom / John Carter of Mars (swashbuckling adventures set on fantasy Mars) where one player character, a royal princess, was trying to convince the villain, a pirate queen, that the pirate queen should release the party as they came in peace with the implied threat of the royal navy coming to search for her - and the royal navy's habit of ending threats against the royal family. This was an action in line with the character, rules, and setting so I allowed it. The princess rolled very well and the pirate queen rolled terribly. However, I didn't want to let the party just walk out and completely bypass the big final fight; so I gave them a bunch of advantage dice and moved into the boss fight. How might you guys have resolved the impasse I found myself in?

Related, how do you handle DM characters trying to persuade/deceive player characters? In the above campaign, I had the pirate queen's trusted lieutenant try and convince the player characters there was no hope of escape because a sandstorm would cause any airship to crash against the canyon walls (though it was perfectly clear outside). Because the lieutenant is trying to deceive the players, I made the players roll an insight/intuition test to see if they could tell they were were being lied to. The players failed the roll, however, because I called for an insight/intuition roll, they knew their characters were being lied to and it was a bit awkward for the party to do something they as players knew was wrong. Any advice on handling these sorts of situations?

 

[Arakhor]

Because the lieutenant is trying to deceive the players, I made the players roll an insight/intuition test to see if they could tell they were were being lied to. The players failed the roll, however, because I called for an insight/intuition roll, they knew their characters were being lied to and it was a bit awkward for the party to do something they as players knew was wrong. Any advice on handling these sorts of situations?

I think a situation like that calls for a secret bluff check, just to avoid seeing how well your players can metagame to their own disadvantage.

 

[Estebonrober]

Yea just not let them roll and lie to them and play the metagame out. In line with the boss fight, I'd say never let the princess have access to the pirate queen until after said boss fight. Obviously the specifics of that get tricky.

 

[Arakhor]

I think that allowing a pre-fight chat with the villain is part of the setting mood. She could be disheartened and still wish to fight or she might be prompted to attack early and spoil a few of her preparations, rather than let the party's mythical reinforcements show up.

 

[Farm Boy]

In pencil and paper, the dice only exist for two reasons, both of which are optional. First, they make the players feel like they have a say in the outcomes on thier own accord, and second, they provide challenge and excitement for the DM. The DM should never roll where the results are visible. The DM should also randomly roll at meaningless times and extra times. Make it a tic to roll when collecting thoughts or narratives. Randomly roll when they do. If they aren't irreconcilable metagamers, it seems to work. Been almost twenty years tho. Damn.

 

[Ajidica]

I think a situation like that calls for a secret bluff check, just to avoid seeing how well your players can metagame to their own disadvantage.

Could you elaborate on this? Part of the ruleset is that persuade/deceive is an opposed test, so players have to roll something. Additionally, unique to this ruleset is that there is no set 'Intuition' skill. Instead, players choose various attributes to use use when rolling.

I think that allowing a pre-fight chat with the villain is part of the setting mood. She could be disheartened and still wish to fight or she might be prompted to attack early and spoil a few of her preparations, rather than let the party's mythical reinforcements show up.

I quite like that idea! The Pirate Queen launches into the attack, preventing the fighters she hid on the airship from using the deck guns against the party.

The DM should also randomly roll at meaningless times and extra times.

I think if I tried that with my playgroup, it would end with me getting thrown out a window!

 

[Farm Boy]

Nobody likes being broken of metagaming, but it's really for their own good.

Edit: that's not entirely true. It's for the good of the campaign unless the DM enjoys metagaming. Plenty do. The players are just in a game. The DM does almost all the work. A guy I gamed with in college swore that the best game he was ever in was with a charismatic as hell type-a DM. He rolled character creation dice behind screen, gave them options for class/profession, a general description of their abilities and the game world's impression of them so far, and then the dice disappeared. It was his world entire. Best part was that since character creation was so quick and painless, it wasn't a big problem when he killed one of them almost immediately as a warning shot, then rerolled him back into the campaign under another PC because the first one was dead dead.

 

[Zardnaar]

Generally some sort off bluff/con/deception check.
If they diva really good job RPing it out they get a bonus if some sort or roll twice take the best results or the required number is lower.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Generally some sort off bluff/con/deception check.
If they diva really good job RPing it out they get a bonus if some sort or roll twice take the best results or the required number is lower.

Definitely a roll that I'd make for them rather than cluing them that something was going on. Optionally, having "roll a d20, what did you get, okay, cool" repetitions randomly throughout their travels will disguise when the roll has actual meaning. Throwing in an occasional "ohhhh," with sad face can make this pretty entertaining for a sadistic DM.

 

[Zardnaar]

Definitely a roll that I'd make for them rather than cluing them that something was going on. Optionally, having "roll a d20, what did you get, okay, cool" repetitions randomly throughout their travels will disguise when the roll has actual meaning. Throwing in an occasional "ohhhh," with sad face can make this pretty entertaining for a sadistic DM.

Yeah fake rolls are key otherwise they get clued in when dice do get rolled something's up.

And not all random encounters are technically "random" but the dice roll let's you hide the railroading.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The technical term there is "forwarding of the plot."

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I liked Resident Evil 2 Board Game. We recently beat it and I can give an in-depth review if anyone is interested.

I have never played dungeons and dragons so all of this discussion is lost on me unfortunately.

 

[Zardnaar]

The technical term there is "forwarding of the plot."

Heah true. Don't railroad to much but yeah plot advancement.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I have never played dungeons and dragons so all of this discussion is lost on me unfortunately.

You poor deprived soul.

 

[Zardnaar]

You poor deprived soul.

Lemure fate?

Think I have 3-400 D&D items on my shelf. Original D&D is funny to read.

They're up to 5E there's actually 7 editions more like 10 if you count half editions.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Lemure fate?

Think I have 3-400 D&D items on my shelf. Original D&D is funny to read.

They're up to 5E there's actually 7 editions more like 10 if you count half editions.

I was a three booklet boxed set guy, but also a later edition with the big hardback books. Been a long time though.

 

[Zardnaar]

I was a three booklet boxed set guy, but also a later edition with the big hardback books. Been a long time though.

I've got the rerelease from 2012/13. Cones with all 7 booklets.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Original D&D is funny to read.

What's funny about it? It's just less complicated than AD&D. The players can get on with creating a story, rather than get bogged down in endless stats.

I'm still a fan of the solo gamebook series Fighting Fantasy, btw (yes, I use shiny dice for this, albeit they're only d6). I picked up the latest two books within the last month. Mind you, I don't just play them these days. I've novelized one of them, and am working on several others. My novelized version of Caverns of the Snow Witch is what gained me my first NaNoWriMo win in November 2016 (in the fanfiction genre).

 

[Yeekim]

I have never played dungeons and dragons so all of this discussion is lost on me unfortunately.

Same here.
Well... I've had one try where it was the first attempt for everyone involved, including the would-be DM. We did not get very far.

 

[Zardnaar]

What's funny about it? It's just less complicated than AD&D. The players can get on with creating a story, rather than get bogged down in endless stats.

I'm still a fan of the solo gamebook series Fighting Fantasy, btw (yes, I use shiny dice for this, albeit they're only d6). I picked up the latest two books within the last month. Mind you, I don't just play them these days. I've novelized one of them, and am working on several others. My novelized version of Caverns of the Snow Witch is what gained me my first NaNoWriMo win in November 2016 (in the fanfiction genre).

Fighting Fantasy was my gateway drug to D&D.

I preferred Lone Wolf.