The Sword of Islam: RFC Medieval Middle East

Thanks as well, obviously I want to see all the screenshots I can as well :D It is indeed a different game for Timurids with Seljuks alive and kicking, though it happens rarely - I've never seen it before at least.

Transoxiana shouldn't appear in the Samanid UHV - it should say Khwarezm(ia) instead.
In reality it's a wider region including everything between Amu Darya and Syr Darya rivers, i.e. most of Khwarezmia and Sogd, but as I said, ignore it.

Thanks for the info. That makes Samanid UHV quite hard, as resisting the flip will be annoying; unless Khwarezmia is taken before they spawn...

I had to post this from my Ajmer-game.:D The Seljuks are again really powerful, although they collapsed soon after, however, the AI-Timurids didn't manage to take their lands. Here is also prove that the Mamluks do get out Egypt without Iron or Horse to begin with.

BTW, maybe Rúm shouldn't respawn after the Ottomans have spawned? It nerfs them down a lot.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0004-4.jpg
Civ4ScreenShot0005-4.jpg
 
Was easier with quotes.. megapost incoming ;)

1. When the Ottomans captured Constantinople, it wasn't renamed Istanbul (I take special offense to this one ;))

It's renamed to Kostantiniyye, the official Ottoman Turkish name adopted after the conquest. Istanbul was informal until much later, but in the mod's timeline Kostantiniyye was on coins, official documents and such.

4. I still don't meet all the civs that I come into contact with, this should happen instantly when you start a game, with the civs that are close to you, and it should happen whenever you meet a new civ. Also I would strongly suggest, letting connection with civ, go away after a while, if you are the Byzantines, you shouldn't have permanent contact with Gujurat or the Ghorids.

Aaargh I hate embassies. As for the contact bug, I don't know, I just can't seem to be able to fix it so far.

5. Why did you stop Catholics from slaughtering Orthodox Christians?? Hundreds of Eastern Christians, were slaughtered by the Crusaders. When Jerusalem was first captured in 1099, the Catholic crusaders, killed Muslims, Jews and Christians. I was strongly suggest that you make it so that the Catholics can remove Orthodox Christianity, but that Orthodox Christians, cannot remove Catholicism when they slaughter a city

It appears to be myth, that's why I removed it. There weren't even Christians in Jerusalem during the siege, because they were expelled before. Apparently neither of the two sources describing the siege, Syriac or Frankish, mention killing of Christians, only Muslims and Jews. On the contrary, they mention Orthodox Christians moving in the city soon after. Apart from the absent Forth Crusade, I see no justification for this.

6.Please remove Catholicism from Alexandria, I personally cannot remember there being any Catholics in Egypt

There were Coptic Catholics and Melchites (Greek Catholics), but I don't know how substantial their presence was. I'm not inclined to keep it there though, so it's removed now.

7. There should not be floodplains in the middle of the desert, outside of Mesopotamia. If you follow the Euphrates river out of the Persian Gulf, you'll notice that it runs through some desert, where it still has floodplains, could you please remove it. If my description is not clear enough, I can supply you with a screenshot

Is it the area with Kirkisya, Abu Kamal and the mysterious ruins (those are ruins of Mari, to answer question 8)? Looking at a satellite photo, there should not be floodplains between Mari and the lake to the East, is that right?

9. Can you remove the roads, which run through the desert near to the left of Mesopotamia, they are making people cut through it, rather then going around the desert as they should on route to the Levant. Once again, if its not clear, I can provide a screenshot

But you asked me to put them there! It's just Syria and corresponds to Silk Road maps such as this one: http://www.east-site.com/images/silk_road_map.gif

10. After building the House of Wisdom, as the Abbasids, the picture popped up, but when I clicked on the picture, the benefits of the wonder didn't pop up, like it usually does. This is just a minor bug though.

It's not a bug, it does't appear because it's not a movie.

11. When an Arab civ is in control of Luxor, it should be called al-Uqsur, but when the Makurians capture it, I guess its ok to let it be called Luxor.

Fixed.

12. Tripoli should be present from the beginning of the game, on plot (20, 46) with Catholicism (Maronites), Orthodox Christianity and Sunni Islam. Otherwise, there is just that awkward spot their.

But it's founded anyway!

13. PLEASE change the KoJ second UHV! Its SOOO ahistorical, in the sense, that it forces you to invade ahistorical places. Although I understand that the crusaders took away knowledge of different spices and things, the way the objective is setup, makes the player have to do some pretty stupid things. Can't you change it to something better?

But it's the one UHV that received most praise as a challenging task, and not so far from reality ;) I've made it a bit better by moving some incense to Egypt, so you don't have to go as far as Yemen.

15. Why is their a "wave" of religious persecution right before Antioch and KoJ arrive? I understand, that you did this to remove the defensive bonus of these cities, but I think you can come up with a better excuse then that. Not to mention, why do they even NEED to have their fortifications thrown off? The crusaders start off with a large enough army, PLUS trebuchets, so why do they need help? I have a feeling that they are powerful enough

They need help because the AI isn't very smart and will stand there bombarding for as long as the foritications are not 0% (actually until the flip happens). This way at least they actually capture it.

Wave of persecutions is an unrelated event, basically a free persecutor is awarded to whoever discovers Religious Unity first.

16. Could you please explain where you got the notion, that there were no horses or iron in Egypt? Its just that if the Ancient Egyptians had horses (chariots), why don't they have them anymore? It's just that Egypt has become really weak because of its lack of iron and horse. I'm fine with them having no iron resource (or else they may become TOO powerful), but if your not going to add iron, then could you at least put more mercenaries to be added to the mercenary pool? Because currently, I have played a few turns where their were not mercenaries, is their supposed to be a mercenary limit, (as in you cannot hire more than X amount of mercenaries?)

There was no sufficient iron in Egypt, you can find some sources online that discuss Ayyubid and Mamluk having to import iron from Syria or even Europe. Horses are there, just around the corner, and we've been there already - Ayyubids start with both, and Mamluks have no issues whatsoever. Human player doesn't need help.

Mercenaries are added to the pool every X turns, Rhye reduced it from 1 to 6 (or 5), because it was slowing the game a lot.

17. What's the "Last Plague of Constantinople"?? I remember the Plague of Justinian, (which was before the start of this mod), and the Bubonic plague. But I can't find any mention of this plague at all. I know the Plague of Justinian, did reappear, from time to time, but by 750AD, I hardly think it was much of a threat anymore. Also whats the idea behind the Bubonic plague follow up? Was there really another follow up to the bubonic plague?

The last plague of Constantinople was in either in 750 or in 762 AD - there are different dates given in various sources.

After the major Black Death pandemic, the bubonic returned many times up every few decades, until mid-17th century (mostly in Europe and the Mediterranean though).

18. Why do ghulams, not require iron? I mean they are very heavily defended, so I'm a bit confused why they don't require the resource?

Ghulam Guards do, only Lancers are missing it, I'll fix it.

19. Shouldn't Constantinople, be on a separate region? I mean Paris is on "Ile de France", so isn't their a Byzantine name for the region surrounding Constantinople?

There was "Eastern Thrace" and I removed it because it was redundant (originally Ottomans spawned in Thrace(Edirne), but that was a silly idea). Historically Constantinople was just part of Thrace.

20. Why did the bubonic plague hit India? (...) I have a feeling that the plague is going to need a bit of tweaking, if you ask me.

Already tweaked it a lot to spread more historically, didn't think about India, will now add it to exceptions, thanks. Still it's not that wrong to have the outbreak start in the West, as the plague passed through wide areas without necessarily devastating them.

21. I have to strongly urge you to rethink the abilities of the Red Fort. Having the ability of giving a few free specialists, is great, but I think it could be applied better for another wonder, (House of Wisdom perhaps?), I would make the Red Fort give a good defensive bonus, due to the fact that its a Red "Fort". So you could give the player, extra 25% defense and it should give a lot of culture, since the Red Fort, was also a residence of the Mughal Royal Family

It wasn't used for defense during the Mughal era and later it was useless. It would be useless in the game as well, because no one ever attacks your main cities there. Like you said, it's a residence of the court, hence all the specialists.

1. I would recommend that when barbarians capture a city, they should pillage the city, destroying some buildings, and lowering the population, and bring a lot of unhappy faces for a few turns, saying "You didn't stop the barbarians from sacking us!", BUT, the difference, is that the city remains in your control, while the barbarian will just keep on moving on, to pillage another city/tile, so then you would have to go and reestablish order in the city, I think THAT would be GREAT if you could implement it :)

Once again, barbarian units are NOT barbarians that just kill and pillage, stop thinking of them as such. Thosr all minor dynasties/kingdoms/emirates of Syrians, Persians, Rajputs and such. The closest to barbarians are the Mongols, but they actually founded a state that lasted for over 100 years. They are meant to capture and raze a few cities, so that civs like Abbasids and Seljuks die, and not just lose some population and culture.

3. If you could name more of the lakes, like you did for the Arel Sea that would be cool :)

Added.

5. The Seljuk's should start at war with the Abbasids, so that they take over Baghdad once in a blue-moon, this would especially be nice, since currently the Abbasids live FOREVER

Seljuks saved the Abbasids from Buyid occupation, and there are reports of completely differents scenarios, like the above one, where Seljuks took over Mesopotamia anyway.

Re: Richard the Lionheart, Influence Driven War, Silk Road
Those are all fine ideas, but at this point I'm still spending several hous a day just fixing bugs and adding very minor stuff. RFCA just added the Silk Road more or less like you described btw.
 
Was easier with quotes.. megapost incoming ;)

Thank You Embryodead! I will respond to some of the stuff you said here, but that will have to wait for the weekend (how the hell, is it ONLY Wensday ;))
But anyways, thanks for your input! Also I would like to say that, I guess its fine not renaming Constantinople to Istanbul, since you are right, technically it was not until the 1930's, under Attaturk's reforms that the city was permanently renamed, so I guess thats ok-ok

Also one question I had, was how do you represent the Ottoman Janissary in this game? You MUST admit, that the Janissaries were a fundamental aspect of the Ottoman political system, but now that the UU is the Great Bombard, I feel they have been sidestepped a bit.

And as for the Crusaders killing Christians, I am VERY surprised you are saying that, because I am getting this information from two reliable sources:
"Reference Classics: Crusades" -- By: Thomas F Madden (GREAT book on ALL the crusades)
"Holy Warriors: Richard the Lionheart and Saladin" -- An excellent PBS documentary, which is part of their famous "Empire" series, and believe me, whenever PBS does a documentary, you know its going to be well researched ;)

So these are the places were they explicitly said that Christians were killed in the taking of Jerusalem by the Crusaders. Also you need to remember that a while before the crusades had happened, under Al-Hakim II (I think that was his name), the crazy Fatimid ruler, he DID expel all the Christians from Jerusalem (not to mention he destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulcher), but after Hakim they returned (and anyways this predates the Crusades). So now if you can supply me with your information, I would be happy to find the source and read for it myself :)

Oh and I don't think you responded to my request about making Sunni Islam impossible to remove from Medina and Mecca, did you?

Lastly, I don't really care about RFC Asia right now, the reason I write up so much about your mod, is because I truly love it, and I think it can go VERY far (in fact I added this mod to wikipeida ;)) And its great that RFC Asia got the Silk Road mechanism working for them, but I would still REALLY like to see it work for this mod, and I mean, if the people in RFC Europe were able to do something like that, I'm sure you could do it as well, but make it even better! This is definitely the best mod for RFC out there, and perhaps one of greatest mods in general!
 
Thank You Embryodead! I will respond to some of the stuff you said here, but that will have to wait for the weekend (how the hell, is it ONLY Wensday ;))
But anyways, thanks for your input!

No, thanks for YOUR input! :)

Also one question I had, was how do you represent the Ottoman Janissary in this game? You MUST admit, that the Janissaries were a fundamental aspect of the Ottoman political system, but now that the UU is the Great Bombard, I feel they have been sidestepped a bit.

It's represented by the Ottoman UP - the Divsirme system. Not much else I can do with 1 UU.

And as for the Crusaders killing Christians, I am VERY surprised you are saying that, because I am getting this information from two reliable sources:
"Reference Classics: Crusades" -- By: Thomas F Madden (GREAT book on ALL the crusades)

That's rather weird, because the exact same author apparently said:
"The Fatimids had attempted to make peace, on the condition that the crusaders not continue towards Jerusalem, but this was of course ignored; Iftikhar ad-Daula, the Fatimid governor of Jerusalem, was not unaware of the Crusaders' intentions. Therefore, he expelled all of Jerusalem's Christian inhabitants. [Thomas F. Madden, The New Concise History of the Crusades at 33 (Rowman & Littlefield Pub., Inc., 2005)]"

That is just just prior to the siege. Of course I've been using online sources for this, but all mention Madden, Gesta Francorum, Syriac chronicle and other eyewitness accounts, showing that there was not a single mention of killing of Christians anywhere. Excerpts from Gesta Francorum are here. Another except from a book by Beck Sanderson is here, and mentions killing of Muslims and Jews only, as Christians were expelled earlier.

Oh and I don't think you responded to my request about making Sunni Islam impossible to remove from Medina and Mecca, did you?

I may have missed some questions I guess. Sunni Islam is already impossible to remove from Mecca, because it's a holy city. I'd rather leave Medina as is- I can imagine Shias making a massacre there all right (which happened actually) - but there can be periodic events that will re-spread Sunni Islam back in Hejaz, which is a more natural way of doing it.
 
As it pertains to barbarians and the Mongol invasions, is there a way that we can NOT truly consider them barbarians? I build any army to repel the invasions, yet my units max out at 10, and i get no GG points. Since the rebels are treated as a faction not barbarians, should the Mongol Horse Archers be treated the same way?

After all, they DO occasionally occupy a city rather than raze it.
 
Antioch's 3rd UHV may have a bug. In 1270, i have seized Sisium and Tarsus (Cilicia has control of 2 cities in Armenia) and I have the only city settled in Syria (Demascus) yet I did not satisfy the UHV.

Must say Antioch is a very fun civ to play.
 
Antioch's 3rd UHV may have a bug. In 1270, i have seized Sisium and Tarsus (Cilicia has control of 2 cities in Armenia) and I have the only city settled in Syria (Demascus) yet I did not satisfy the UHV.

Must say Antioch is a very fun civ to play.

Cilicia goes further west than you might have noticed.
 
Cilicia goes further west than you might have noticed.

That was in fact the issue. I loaded an older save and sent the Knights of Antioch to take care of that "little problem"
 
Before I proceed with this mega-task, what do others think about merging in Influence Driven War? For those that don't know, it's a popular modcomp that changes plot culture depending on combat results, meaning that you can gain/lose territory without gaining/losing cities. I think it could be useful in RFC context but I don't want want the mod to be bloated with unnecessary features.

@Barak
I'll change the Mongol XP!
 
I've seen it work in Rise of Mankind, but I think it shouldn't be as powerful in RFC because winning battles is good but sometimes you could get +60% culture after a battle and that's way too powerful. But it would definitely add to the mod, though.
 
I think AdrienIer is right, it'd be a really cool thing to add, but maybe make it less powerful. I don't know how you'd do that though. One thing I don't like about most mods is that they get too complex, so as long as you try and keep things as simple as they are, this mod should continue down the path to goodness.
 
Amazingly, it took exactly 5 minutes to merge, it's simpler than I thought. I halved the default values and I'm testing it now. The good thing about it is that the mod is relatively care-free so apart from the +/- % combat spam there's no visible additions. I'm thinking about disabling the % info, it's not like these values are needed as you can see culture values anyway.
 
I'm thinking about disabling the % info, it's not like these values are needed as you can see culture values anyway.

That'd be a good idea. So I guess we wait to see how your testing goes now.
 
Quick Side Note:
Just to let you know, I'm pretty sure that the spearman has the same icon as the heavy spearman, you might want to change that.
 
Quick Side Note:
Just to let you know, I'm pretty sure that the spearman has the same icon as the heavy spearman, you might want to change that.

For which Civ? Normal unit certainly doesn't, but each ethnic unit loads icons separately, so some civs may have wrong icons.
 
This was for PoA

Also I was thinking, in my game, KoJ took over Edessa AND Rakka, with their extra reinforcements, can't you remove N. Syria, Edessa and Jazaria from their border provinces?

Also, to make sure that KoJ doesn't keep its massive amount of troops which it gets, I propose that you let some of their troops "return to Europe", as in they are disbanded. So whenever you have "Crusaders from Europe have arrived" (or whatever the message is), then once a city is recaptured OR after a few turns, another message should read, "Crusading forces are returning back to Europe", because in reality, once the crusaders took Jerusalem, they ended up returning back to Europe, they didn't stay in the Holy Land, for very long, in fact a lot of them ended up returning to Europe once Jerusalem was captured, as they say it as the end of their duty to God
 
They did have Damascus, I wasn't able to take it because they were sending in stacks of about Abna spearmen, axemen, swordsmen, horsemen, and catapults/trebouchets every few turns. By the time they stopped, they had Heavy Infantry.

Then either I was really lucky or you were really unlucky because I had the exact opposite experience. They had two defenders in Damascus, which I took. Never had problems with them again.
 
This was for PoA

Also I was thinking, in my game, KoJ took over Edessa AND Rakka, with their extra reinforcements, can't you remove N. Syria, Edessa and Jazaria from their border provinces?

Also, to make sure that KoJ doesn't keep its massive amount of troops which it gets, I propose that you let some of their troops "return to Europe", as in they are disbanded. So whenever you have "Crusaders from Europe have arrived" (or whatever the message is), then once a city is recaptured OR after a few turns, another message should read, "Crusading forces are returning back to Europe", because in reality, once the crusaders took Jerusalem, they ended up returning back to Europe, they didn't stay in the Holy Land, for very long, in fact a lot of them ended up returning to Europe once Jerusalem was captured, as they say it as the end of their duty to God

Border provinces don't determine where the AI attacks. Border provinces are for stability purposes.

What's so bad about them taking Rakka/Edessa anyways? :confused:
 
Well, I was playing as PoA, so ya it does matter, also because they shouldn't be galavanting around that area anyways
 
More importantly how could you let them take before you did?:confused:

And I can easily imagine them competing over the same areas.

EDIT: the unit leaving would make them unplayable and unrealistic. I would hate to see my best units disappear. They are weak enough already...
 
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