The thread for space cadets!

My point is that we know fairly well now what zero-g does the human body. What we don't know much about is how much gravity we need to actually protect it from rapid deconditioning. Does, say, 0.5g four hours a day suffice? Or do we need more time in gravity, or stronger gravity? Are different body systems affected differently? Can human body adjust to lunar or martian gravity levels without some unforeseen problems?

These are all huge unknowns and we NEED answers before we can send people on missions in deep space which will last for months or years.

Strangely, the ISS was supposed to have the centrifuge, but it was removed due to budget cuts (and probably also the zero-g researchers lobbying, which is pathetic).

Oh I'm not disputing that at all. I'm merely stating that there is other microgravity research that can still be done at the ISS that has nothing to do with human deconditioning.

I'm not saying they shouldn't also research that at all. They should, and frankly, they need to do more research of all kinds period. We've learned alot about orbital construction by building it, but now that we have it, they really need to ramp up the research in a big way to help justify the massive cost.
 
I have heard that 0g research of crystal growth is very interesting and useful.
 
I have heard that 0g research of crystal growth is very interesting and useful.

Yup. You can manufacture all kinds of materials and pharmaceuticals in microgravity that you can't on Earth. We should be funding this research as it will open the doors to major new economic enterprises.
 
Come on, Winner. Think of a more substantial objection than something specious like "we already know everything there is to know about zero-g and the human body."

Which is not what I have said, so please don't make it look like that.

I said that we have fairly *substantial* experience with zero-g exposure. It's dangerous and harmful and subjecting astronauts to it is morally dubious if it doesn't serve a clear scientific purpose. It would, if they were a control group to those undergoing trials of simulated gravity techniques. This way we could gain some useful data instead of the repeated confirmations of "bones decalcify, muscles atrophy, cardiovascular system gets weaker, eyes can change shape, etc." facts.

If they want to do long zero-g stays, let them at least do it as a part of a simulated Mars mission, something like the Russian Mars 500 but in space.
 
Hey guys/gals,
The formal debate on Space Exploration is in the final stretch. Have you all been following it?
 
News on the Webb Telescope (JWST);

mirror 1.JPG

Spoiler :
The first two of the 18 primary mirrors to fly aboard NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope arrived at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

The mirrors are going through receiving and inspection and will then be stored in the Goddard cleanroom until engineers are ready to assemble them onto the telescope’s backplane structure that will support them.

Ball Aerospace, Boulder, Colo., under contract to Northrop Grumman, is responsible for the Webb’s optical technology and lightweight mirror system. On September 17, 2012, Ball Aerospace shipped the first two mirrors in custom containers designed specifically for the multiple trips the mirrors made through eight U.S. states while completing their manufacturing.

The remaining 16 mirrors will make their way from Ball Aerospace to Goddard over the next 12 months as they await telescope integration in 2015.

“These first two completed flight mirror assemblies arriving at Goddard are an important first step leading towards the integration of the mirrors onto the flight structure,” said Lee Feinberg, NASA Optical Telescope Element Manager for the James Webb Space Telescope at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. “These delivered flight mirrors meet their requirements, which is great news for Webb telescope being able to fulfill its scientific potential.”

One of the Webb’s science goals is to look back through time to when galaxies were young.

To see such far-off and faint objects, Webb needs a large mirror. A telescope’s sensitivity, or how much detail it can see, is directly related to the size of the mirror area that collects light from the objects being observed. A larger area collects more light, just like a larger bucket collects more water in a rain shower than a small one.

Webb’s scientists and engineers determined that a primary mirror 6.5 meters (21 feet 4 inches) across is what was needed to measure the light from these distant galaxies. Each of the 18 hexagonal-shaped mirror assemblies that make up the primary mirror measures more than 1.3 meters (4.2 feet) across, and weighs approximately 40 kilograms, or 88 pounds.

The Webb will be the first space astronomy observatory to use an actively-controlled, segmented mirror. The Webb is critical for future infrared observations. The Webb will be the premier observatory of the next decade.

It will study every phase in the history of our universe, ranging from the first luminous glows after the Big Bang, to the formation of stellar systems capable of supporting life on planets like Earth, to the evolution of our own Solar System. It is a joint project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Canadian Space Agency.

-Defense News 6Oct12
 
Interesting. Hadn't the JWST been cancelled though?

The Congress had considered cancellation last year, but decided to merely cap the ceiling at $8 billion for the US contribution share.
 
Thanks a lot for this, El Mac. This might be exactly what I was looking for.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/shiny-asteroid-vesta-once-had-magnetic-personality-181000609.html

Vesta, the brightest asteroid in the solar system, apparently possessed a magnetic field in its infancy that shielded it from the ravages of energetic particles from the sun, researchers say.

The finding could help solve the mystery of why Vesta's surface appears so bright, they add.

Vesta is the second-largest asteroid in the solar system, a behemoth 330 miles wide (530 kilometers) that is sometimes visible to the naked eye on Earth. The only larger asteroid is Ceres, which is also classified as a dwarf planet.

:cool:
 
And soon we'll see what Ceres looks like :popcorn:

I remember reading an interesting discussion between space nuts about whether sending humans to Ceres would be feasible. Turned out it is significantly more difficult, even without the added complexity that landing on Mars entails.

---

BTW, two more Galileo satellites have been launched from French Guyana by a Soyuz rocket. This will allow engineers to thoroughly test the key systems of Galileo and clear it for full deployment in the coming years :)


Link to video.
 
Asteroids contain valuable and useful materials like iron, nickel, water, and rare platinum group metals, often in significantly higher concentration than found in mines on Earth.
Link

So what's the idea with this? Iron and nickel are surely the two most common metals on Earth, so even given mining on Earth might be more difficult than on an asteroid (assuming you once get the miner there), finding these two in space cannot possibly be meant for use on Earth. In, principally, the manufacture of cutlery and motor cars.

Platinum's principal use is in catalytic converters, which with the demise of the petrol engine in the, hopefully, not too different future, may become significantly less valuable.

Water they suggest could be used to make rocket fuel. Except that the amount of energy needed to separate it into hydrogen and oxygen would seem to make this a rather extravagant notion. Surely water in space would be most valuable as...well...water?

I admire these people's vision. I can see nothing wrong with looking forward. But are they being realistic, or just appealing to the gullibility of the average likely investor with more money than sense?

Still, no doubt I'm just stupidly cynical and there really is something in this, other than highly trained physicists trying to find some employment in a world where their possibilities are decidedly limited.

But good luck to them anyway. Though I'm sure you techies can put me right.

I understand that getting your materials in space for use in space makes a lot of sense. But the difficulties abound. It would make no sense to bring this stuff back down to earth, manufacture it, and then send it back into space. So not only would you need to mine the stuff but also manufacture it out in space.
 
Platinum's principal use is in catalytic converters, which with the demise of the petrol engine in the, hopefully, not too different future, may become significantly less valuable.

Platinum has other uses, especially in fuel cell membranes, which could be in high demand in near- to medium-term future.

Water they suggest could be used to make rocket fuel. Except that the amount of energy needed to separate it into hydrogen and oxygen would seem to make this a rather extravagant notion. Surely water in space would be most valuable as...well...water?

No, you don't understand it.

Water in space is precious because it's already in space. Launching *anything* from Earth surface to space costs a lot of energy, and therefore money. Basically sending a kilogram to low-Earth orbit costs the equivalent of the mass in gold. Worse, reaction rockets using liquid hydrogen (LH2)-liquid oxygen (LOx) are bulky because of hydrogen's low density. Even worse, LH2 is VERY difficult to store for long periods, because this stuff will evaporate from about anything unless frozen to near absolute zero.

Therefore, getting water in space and producing rocket fuel from it there could potentially be very lucrative and far less expensive than having to launch all the propellant from Earth. The energy cost of breaking water molecules into LH2/LOx is trivial compared to that, especially since solar energy is abundant in this corner of the Solar System.

That's the point of looking for water on the Moon or the Near-Earth asteroids. The costs in energy of transporting it from these locations to low-Earth orbit are far lower than the alternative of launching it from Earth.

I admire these people's vision. I can see nothing wrong with looking forward. But are they being realistic, or just appealing to the gullibility of the average likely investor with more money than sense?

That remains to be seen. If nobody tries, though, we'll never know.

I understand that getting your materials in space for use in space makes a lot of sense. But the difficulties abound. It would make no sense to bring this stuff back down to earth, manufacture it, and then send it back into space. So not only would you need to mine the stuff but also manufacture it out in space.

Bringing stuff from space back to Earth does not make any economic sense at all (unless you want to sell Martian rocks to collectors or soil samples to research organizations) and that's how it's going to be for a long time. That's not the point though - what we want now is to get the stuff we need for endeavours in space in space. This way we could reduce the costs of government and private space efforts considerably. Whoever manages to succeed in this will also make money on it. It's like going on a long hike - if you know you can get water and food mid-way, you don't have to carry all of it with you in your already heavy backpack.
 
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