The thread for space cadets!

The Russian problem is this : Americans spend 50 billions of american dollars to invent a pen which is able to write in space while Russian astronauts take pencils out in the spece ... now that IS a WASTE of money (The American waste of money that is) ;)
 
Sooooooo.....

What's this about Stephen Hawking saying that we humans have to leave Earth or else become extinct before the current millennium ends?
 
He's been saying that for a while.

Perenially relevant:
[damn, does anyone know how to find old XKCDs if you have no idea what it was titled? I recall one where they lament the fact that we earthlings never find the money to invest in manned exploration and habitation, and the last line is something like 'remnants of dead civilizations are discovered by the few who chose to dare to try to travel beyond their own star..."]
 
Sooooooo.....

What's this about Stephen Hawking saying that we humans have to leave Earth or else become extinct before the current millennium ends?

We humans definitely HAVE to leave earth, or at least settle on another planet to avoid extinction but this is far fetched , I mean what are the odds of hit by an asteroid ? Thats right ! ... it's irrelevelant ! We just have to colnize or we will be remembered as space monkeys indeed ;)
 
The Russian problem is this : Americans spend 50 billions of american dollars to invent a pen which is able to write in space while Russian astronauts take pencils out in the spece ... now that IS a WASTE of money (The American waste of money that is) ;)

The "Russian Space Pen" is a joke, pencils apparently produce graphite dust which floats all over the place so the Americans weren't so stupid. Regardless it still perfectly incarnates the spirit of the average Russian (I'm talking from personal experience) :lol:
 
The "Russian Space Pen" is a joke, pencils apparently produce graphite dust which floats all over the place so the Americans weren't so stupid. Regardless it still perfectly incarnates the spirit of the average Russian (I'm talking from personal experience) :lol:

Allright let's try to reach a compromise between pencils and 50+ billion of dollars ? What do You propose ? What should we do ?
 
Well, of course, but it looks like a huge influx of funds as well as a new refocusing of attention and energy toward space exploration. Which is awesome.
My space enthusiam far outstrips my nataionalism (as hard as that is to believe) so I really want this to be the case. But not knowing the Russian federal budget, I err on the side of $50b not being a serious commitment from them. Could be wrong, I hope I am.
 
He's been saying that for a while.
Well, why? And Why this millennium specifically? And how? Given the harsh realities of space, not to mention physics, I really don't see how it's possible to leave Earth at all.
 
My space enthusiam far outstrips my nataionalism (as hard as that is to believe) so I really want this to be the case. But not knowing the Russian federal budget, I err on the side of $50b not being a serious commitment from them. Could be wrong, I hope I am.

Their budget in 2005 was $800-$900 million, based on some random article I dug up. That sounds like it could be reasonably true, so let's say that it is.

It is going up to $50 billion over 7 years, so.. about $7 billion a year. That is still less than NASA, but seems like a huge increase and a huge boost in funding.

They can do things a lot cheaper than NASA too, so we can probably expect what, a new cosmodrome, a manned mission to Mars, and a base on the moon? :p

So that's obviously an exaggeration, but it seems like Russia might just be reawakening as an ambitious space power, and not just somebody who farts a couple guys into space every once in a while for show. That they want to build a new cosmodrome for their operations is very telling. The competition this could again ignite with America seems like a very exciting prospect. So.. The Russians better not screw this up. No explosions please! This isn't KSP, this is real life.
 
Warpus is kind of right. Their program has no shortage of problems but you'd be surprised what gets accomplished with dedication and perseverance.

...Neither of which the Russians have. It's an aimless decrepit junta and I think even that is putting it mildly. I will be genuinely surprised if this yields any real milestones, let alone a bigger Russian footprint space-wise.
 
I was under the impression that the Russian culture was much more pro-space, and that the cosmonauts were culturally more respected.
 
Well, why? And Why this millennium specifically? And how? Given the harsh realities of space, not to mention physics, I really don't see how it's possible to leave Earth at all.
Well I'd say this millennium is appropriate since last millennia we went from Crusades to Moon Landings. I think we could swing extraplanetary colonization in the next 1000 years.

The physics are not really that huge of an issue. We've figured that out, now it's about making the economics work out and that is shaping up as well in my opinion.

Their budget in 2005 was $800-$900 million, based on some random article I dug up. That sounds like it could be reasonably true, so let's say that it is.

It is going up to $50 billion over 7 years, so.. about $7 billion a year. That is still less than NASA, but seems like a huge increase and a huge boost in funding.

They can do things a lot cheaper than NASA too, so we can probably expect what, a new cosmodrome, a manned mission to Mars, and a base on the moon? :p

So that's obviously an exaggeration, but it seems like Russia might just be reawakening as an ambitious space power, and not just somebody who farts a couple guys into space every once in a while for show. That they want to build a new cosmodrome for their operations is very telling. The competition this could again ignite with America seems like a very exciting prospect. So.. The Russians better not screw this up. No explosions please! This isn't KSP, this is real life.
I stand corrected, that is a significant boost in funding. I really, really hope they don't f&^$ this up like they have been lately.

Warpus is kind of right. Their program has no shortage of problems but you'd be surprised what gets accomplished with dedication and perseverance.

...Neither of which the Russians have. It's an aimless decrepit junta and I think even that is putting it mildly. I will be genuinely surprised if this yields any real milestones, let alone a bigger Russian footprint space-wise.
I know, it's so sad. :sad: Here's hoping though.
I was under the impression that the Russian culture was much more pro-space, and that the cosmonauts were culturally more respected.

Culturally, absolutely the Russians are pro-space. Politically, well the elites haven't done much to help the program other than provide the bare necessities to keep it alive. I would even go so far as to say that if it wasn't for NASA paying for flights to the ISS, (and providing a lot of assistance in return for the Russian ISS modules [which even Russian cosmonauts hate]) the Russian manned-flights might have stopped a decade ago. They have nowhere to really go or things to do other than shuttle back and forth to the ISS since the Soyuz is a crap-tastic research platform and well the Russians haven't done a ton of independent LEO research lately (IIRC).

The Russian government has only paid to prop up what remains of their program and a lot of their missions use old Soviet-era hardware (and they have a spectacular failure streak). The manned program is the one area of their program that hasn't been failing with regularity but again, they are being propped up their by NASA and the pressures to not kill international astronauts > pressures to not fail at everything else. So the resources go there and everything else suffers.

Like I said earlier, everyone, including the Russian cosmonauts, dislike the Russian segments of the ISS. They are small, cramped, ugly and way out of date. A Russian cosmonaut (the top Russian cosmonaut, IIRC - the article is in this thread somewhere) came out last year and blasted the Russian program and even specifically mentioned the Russian segments as disgraceful and that everyone up there tends to hang out in the American segments as much as possible. They are just using out of date tech and they never had any sensibilities when it came to crew comfort or convenience.

Then it's worth mentioning that not only do they suck now, compared to where they were 30 years ago, they really suck. Back then, their tech wasn't so out of date and they had more of it. Here is the Soviet Space Shuttle Buran:
Spoiler :
buran_landing.jpg

200px-Buran.jpg

Sexy right? It flew one unmanned test mission where it took off in a blizzard(!) because that's how awesome it was that it can fly in a blizzard where the US Space Shuttle blew up when it launched below freezing....anywho. It worked and it was a marvelous piece of hardware. Here's what happened to it:
Spoiler :
buran-wreckage2.jpg

After the fall of the USSR, funds for the program dried up and only the bare necessities were kept running. They parked the Buran (which ironically means Snowstorm) in a hangar and meant to refurbish it at some point. It was there for 10 years until the roof collapsed because they didn't even have the money to ensure the building was sound. Now it's a scrap heap. Similarly, the Mir space station was awesomesauce 30 years ago but was allowed to decay, then a tanker crashed into it, a fire broke out and it just started coming apart. Eventually, they ran out of money to even keep it in orbit and they let it burn up in the atmosphere.

So, the point of this long, disjointed and thoroughly terrible post is that yes, Russians are very much pro-space but their political elite do their formerly awesome program a disservice by continually shortchanging it. Factor in a healthy resistance to change and reform within the program and there you have it, a crap program that basically only does what NASA wants them to do like shuttling to the ISS because all their independent missions blow up like the Phobos-Grunt probe.

Apologies for this poorly written post, it's early.
 
Well I'd say this millennium is appropriate since last millennia we went from Crusades to Moon Landings. I think we could swing extraplanetary colonization in the next 1000 years.

The physics are not really that huge of an issue. We've figured that out, now it's about making the economics work out and that is shaping up as well in my opinion.
I was thinking more along the lines of making the interstellar hop. :p That's where the physics become an issue. Especially in the 1000 years timeframe, I believe.

And besides, Sol's not gonna last forever, you know. :p Yes, 5 billion years is a long time. Still doesn't give us the excuse (or the right) to be lazy though. :p
 
I stand corrected, that is a significant boost in funding. I really, really hope they don't f&^$ this up like they have been lately.

Me too. I've learned over the years that America takes the competition thing very seriously, so the best way to really get NASA going again is probably to get the Russians doing some exciting new stuff in space again. The Americans will see it as Rocky 2 or something, a hollywood sequel, and we'll have awesome stuff to post about in this thread, like trips to other planets, and rovers on the sun. Okay, maybe not that, but with the Russians you never know.

As for Russian culture being more pro-space, I think they are generally just more respectful and appreciative of academic achievements. To get into space there is a lot of thinking involved - you need to understand the nature of reality on several levels and solve a bunch of problems.. There's lots of engineering involved as well - a lot of higher thinking disciplines.. I almost get the sense that getting into space is viewed as a sort of ultimate mental and in some ways even physical achievement. This all also feeds into national prestige, which all in all I think is more important in Russian culture than in a lot of others. And I don't like making grand sweeping statements like that, but I think it helps explain this whole pro-space stuff there.
 
I was under the impression that the Russian culture was much more pro-space, and that the cosmonauts were culturally more respected.

Probably but the Russian government is an incurable mess.
 
Me too. I've learned over the years that America takes the competition thing very seriously, so the best way to really get NASA going again is probably to get the Russians doing some exciting new stuff in space again. The Americans will see it as Rocky 2 or something, a hollywood sequel, and we'll have awesome stuff to post about in this thread, like trips to other planets, and rovers on the sun. Okay, maybe not that, but with the Russians you never know.
Well, I agree but I think the primary competition in the near term is going to come from the Chinese. They have been slowly, but steadily working towards their goals nonstop and have allocated the resources to accomplish them. The American program is plagued with the changing priorities of different administrations and budget crusaders who only care about cutting stuff, even vitally important national priorities, because tax cuts and spending cuts cure all evils or something. The Chinese don't have this problem and though they share corruption issues with Russia, they don't seem to be nearly as incompetent.

So I think China is going to start surprising everyone in the next 5-10 years and that will get us fired up. However, if we actually stick to our current plans and they don't fall victim to President Chris Cristie's massive 2017 budget cuts, then pretty much no matter what the Chinese do it will pale in comparison to wrangling an asteroid, launching lunar landing missions* and sending out private asteroid mining ventures, etc.

*(if we are going to move an asteroid to lunar orbit and send astronauts to it and the Chinese are doing exciting space stuff, it's virtually guaranteed we'll put another flag on the moon in a cosmic 'eff you' gesture as it will take basically no more effort to do so and just screams USA#1!)

As for Russian culture being more pro-space, I think they are generally just more respectful and appreciative of academic achievements. To get into space there is a lot of thinking involved - you need to understand the nature of reality on several levels and solve a bunch of problems.. There's lots of engineering involved as well - a lot of higher thinking disciplines.. I almost get the sense that getting into space is viewed as a sort of ultimate mental and in some ways even physical achievement. This all also feeds into national prestige, which all in all I think is more important in Russian culture than in a lot of others. And I don't like making grand sweeping statements like that, but I think it helps explain this whole pro-space stuff there.
Yeah in many ways space exploration is the pinnacle of achievement for a nation, which is why so many nations these days (India, Iran, South Korea, Japan) are all of a sudden getting serious about it.

I do think one other reason why Russians are more pro-space in general is because for a long time it was a primary propaganda resource for them and was shoved down everyone's throat. I imagine they had like 3 TV stations so they saw: Government news about space, Government news about agriculture and Government news about evil American Empire - they couldn't just flip over to ET to see what town the Kardashian's were slutting it up in this week. Know what I mean?
 
Well I'd say this millennium is appropriate since last millennia we went from Crusades to Moon Landings. I think we could swing extraplanetary colonization in the next 1000 years.

My hope is to (personally) be space-borne by ~3300.
A lot of things need to go my way for that to happen, I'll grant you.
 
So I think China is going to start surprising everyone in the next 5-10 years and that will get us fired up. However, if we actually stick to our current plans and they don't fall victim to President Chris Cristie's massive 2017 budget cuts, then pretty much no matter what the Chinese do it will pale in comparison to wrangling an asteroid, launching lunar landing missions* and sending out private asteroid mining ventures, etc.

A 3 way space race between China, Russia, and the U.S., with the Euros and various other space agencies (Japan, Canadian, etc.) contributing and competing on the sidelines.. that seems very exciting.

I do think one other reason why Russians are more pro-space in general is because for a long time it was a primary propaganda resource for them and was shoved down everyone's throat. I imagine they had like 3 TV stations so they saw: Government news about space, Government news about agriculture and Government news about evil American Empire - they couldn't just flip over to ET to see what town the Kardashian's were slutting it up in this week. Know what I mean?

Oh, growing up in communist Poland, that crap was shoved down our throats as well: The glorious achievements of our friends, the Soviets! We'd have a little propaganda piece about either WW2, Soviet space achievements, or something similar, before every movie, if you went to watch one in a movie theatre, and plenty of stuff like that on TV.

I'm sure it would have worked better on us if those were Polish achievements and if most of us didn't see through the BS, but.. as a result you got jokes like these:

Setting: 1961, Warsaw

Little Johnny: "Daddy daddy, the Russians are in space!"
Dad: "What, all of them?"
Johnny: "No, just one"
Dad: "Who the hell cares then"
 
So this article on fully documenting the Saturn V missile is chock full of goodness if you trim out the parts where the engineers constantly pat themselves on the back :lol:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/04/how-nasa-brought-the-monstrous-f-1-moon-rocket-back-to-life/


The power output of the Saturn first stage was 60 gigawatts. This happens to be very similar to the peak electricity demand of the United Kingdom."

Nice!

Further, although the principles behind the F-1 are well known, some aspects of its operation simply weren't fully understood at the time. The thrust instability problem is a perfect example. As the F-1 was being built, early examples tended to explode on the test stand. Repeated testing revealed that the problem was caused by the burning plume of propellent rotating as it combusted in the nozzle. These rotations would increase in speed until they were happening thousands of times per second, causing violent oscillations in the thrust that eventually blew the engine apart. The problem could have derailed the Saturn program and jeopardized President Kennedy's Moon landing deadline, but engineers eventually used a set of stubby barriers (baffles) sticking up from the big hole-riddled plate that sprayed fuel and liquid oxygen into the combustion chamber (the "injector plate"). These baffles damped down the oscillation to acceptable levels, but no one knew if the exact layout was optimal.

Giant balls!



The exterior of the F-1 was meticulously photographed and then mapped with a structured light scanning rig, which uses a projector to paint a pattern of stripes onto the surface being scanned. Mounted on the side of the projector are two cameras which each record how the pattern falls on the surface being scanned. For every exposure, the projectors and camera capture sixteen different stripe patterns...

...The result was a complete and highly accurate CAD model of the entire F-1 rocket engine, down to its tiniest bolt. The fidelity was so good that the scanner even picked up tiny accumulations of soot left on the turbine blades from the engine's previous test firing back in the 1960s. The engineers removed the soot and re-scanned, but even this seemingly trivial accumulation yielded valuable data—sooting is a problem with kerosene-powered engines, so understanding how it builds up inside the engine could reduce its occurrence.

Sounds like something out of the movie Prometheus!

As with everything else about the F-1, even the gas generator boasts impressive specs. It churns out about 31,000 pounds of thrust (138 kilonewtons), more than an F-16 fighter's engine running at full afterburner, and it was used to drive a turbine that produced 55,000 shaft horsepower. (That's 55,000 horsepower just to run the F-1's fuel and oxidizer pumps—the F-1 itself produced the equivalent of something like 32 million horsepower, though accurately measuring a rocket's thrust at that scale is complicated.)

55,000 horsepower fuel pump! Man I'm jealous :cry:

The exterior scan was therefore used to develop the specialized tooling needed to fit the F-1's nuts, bolts, and fasteners. Some of the bolts were annoyingly unique—Betts noted that at least one high-torque bolt in the turbopump assembly required its own special torque adapter to remove.
The team was able to use the structured light scan of that particular bolt and, in less than half a day, to fabricate a tool using an additive manufacturing method called electron beam melting to quickly "print" 3D projects out of metal powder. Armed with this and other custom tools, Case, Betts, and Coates took the engine apart, down to its tiniest components.

12 hours to print a custom torque adapter...
 
This is pretty classic:

http://qntm.org/destroy

How to destroy the Earth


Preamble

Destroying the Earth is harder than you may have been led to believe.

You've seen the action movies where the bad guy threatens to destroy the Earth. You've heard people on the news claiming that the next nuclear war or cutting down rainforests or persisting in releasing hideous quantities of pollution into the atmosphere threatens to end the world.

Fools.

The Earth is built to last. It is a 4,550,000,000-year-old, 5,973,600,000,000,000,000,000-tonne ball of iron. It has taken more devastating asteroid hits in its lifetime than you've had hot dinners, and lo, it still orbits merrily. So my first piece of advice to you, dear would-be Earth-destroyer, is: do NOT think this will be easy.

This is not a guide for wusses whose aim is merely to wipe out humanity. I (Sam Hughes) can in no way guarantee the complete extinction of the human race via any of these methods, real or imaginary. Humanity is wily and resourceful, and many of the methods outlined below will take many years to even become available, let alone implement, by which time mankind may well have spread to other planets; indeed, other star systems. If total human genocide is your ultimate goal, you are reading the wrong document. There are far more efficient ways of doing this, many which are available and feasible RIGHT NOW. Nor is this a guide for those wanting to annihilate everything from single-celled life upwards, render Earth uninhabitable or simply conquer it. These are trivial goals in comparison.

This is a guide for those who do not want the Earth to be there anymore.
 
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