The thread for space cadets!

The main event's been done with for over a month and a half, but I've been itching for a while to post this, from the Minneapolis Star Tribune:

Spoiler big image :

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My favorite part is that the coincidence is the title is the same name as my personal Civ II scenario. I geeked out big time seeing this. :D
 
so ı just read 6% of Americans believe the Pluto flyby is a fake . Is that a big percentage ?
 
Going by Wikipedia's 2015 population estimate for the USA, that's 19,296,301 people.

That's a big number. If you count the babies. :p

Assuming 76.7% adults (1.00 - 0.233) for this population, that's 14,800,263 million people, that would believe that.

So maybe not quite a big percentage, but it's a big number in this context, IMO. :sad:
 
Going by Wikipedia's 2015 population estimate for the USA, that's 19,296,301 people.

That's a big number. If you count the babies. :p

Assuming 76.7% adults (1.00 - 0.233) for this population, that's 14,800,263 million people, that would believe that.

So maybe not quite a big percentage, but it's a big number in this context, IMO. :sad:

It's not so bad if you keep in mind that 25% of Americans believe that the sun revolves around the earth. Essentially at least a quarter of America is astronomically illiterate, so you can usually expect about that percentage to have other grave misunderstandings about the Universe. So with that in mind 6% doesn't seem so bad.

And don't forget all the conspiracy nuts, there seems to be a decent amount of people out there who understand the science, but think that the moon landing was a hoax and so on.
 
Cool pics bro.

Oh hey, the Russians managed to launch a Proton without it blowing up!
proton-inmarsat5-F3-liftoff-2015-08-28-879x485.jpg
I dont know why you continue bashing russian rockets as if they were crap. True is that while there have been issues with last Proton model, that comes after about 400 protons launched with a 88% of succes, which is not bad, at the same level as any american rocket series, and lets not forget Soyuz is the most reliable rocket there with 99% success after near 1000 launches. Beat that.
 
I dont know why you continue bashing russian rockets as if they were crap. True is that while there have been issues with last Proton model, that comes after about 400 protons launched with a 88% of succes, which is not bad, at the same level as any american rocket series, and lets not forget Soyuz is the most reliable rocket there with 99% success after near 1000 launches. Beat that.
Hey now, I actually don't think Russian rockets are crap. Russian quality control and their space program in general are objectively crap.

They have had a string of really bad screw ups that cost them a ton of market share and their program itself is in such disarray that they haven't launched a successful interplanetary probe since the 80's, their new launch site is riddled with corruption and years over-schedule and over-budget and their new launch vehicle line (Angara), was proposed back in the 80's and until like 2 years ago was completely vaporware. Even now the Angara program is struggling as it got somewhat de-emphasized in order to fix problems with the Proton and Soyuz lines.


Proton and Soyuz are great rockets, when they are built correctly. Mind you, space is hard and lots of companies have had screw-ups lately so I do make wide allowances for that. What makes the Russians unique is the consistent string of screw ups and they are all traced back to just abysmal quality control and lack of training.

You know that Proton that did a cartwheel and exploded a couple years back? That happened because a technician (who wasn't trained) installed an accelerometer upside down. When it wouldn't fit in its slot in that orientation, he pulled out a hammer and beat it into place and no one caught it before launch.

Finally, while the Angara does offer some new ideas, by and large, the Russian space program is moribund and unable to innovate. The Proton and Soyuz are both cold war kids in their entirety and in a lot of ways are seriously outdated (the Proton in particular being an extreme hazard that would never be allowed to fly in the West). The Angara is their attempt to catch up by switching to LOX/H2 and modularity, things which the West figured out decades ago.


Having said all of that, Russian engines are pretty fantastic, bar none.


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The following post was redirected from the Republican Nomination Thread, of all places:
The Van Allen belts are at a much higher altitude near the equator, and those seriously interfere with the electronics and communications. The ideal launch site would be the south pole, because the Van Allen belt is just not there. But that carries a host of other practical issues. Plus it is not just about the launch, but the orbit. Not much of an orbit around the south pole. If you try and orbit longitudinally, the belts go in-out-in-out. But at the equator you can just keep your altitude below the belt. You want your comm centers south, away from the belt, as well. At this point, we could probably work with it, be it North or South, but we didn't know as much about it in 1969, and why make it harder for ourselves than we have to?

First, we have to define what kinds of missions we are talking about.

For manned missions that are not going into deep space (so basically everything except Apollo), the Van Allen Belts are much too high to be a real concern. They do dip around the South Atlantic Anomaly but that isn't a deal-breaker. Additionally, even deep space missions (Apollo) only briefly cruise through the VAB's, so the crews aren't in any real danger. So, given the extra energy boost afforded by a low-latitude, eastward launch, you basically always want to do manned missions from near the equator when possible (important caveat because like with Russia, it's not always possible to be near the equator).

Satellites have to be radiation hardened to deal with Coronal Mass Ejections and Cosmic Ray Events so while the VAB's aren't a good thing for them either, they aren't a particularly lethal threat. And again, the position of the VAB's don't really impact the majority of useful orbits for satellites which typically operate above or below them. The VAB's just aren't situated in an altitude where there are any particular advantages to operating there, which is very fortunate.

Also, interplanetary missions are going to be launched from low-latitude, eastward locations because of the aforementioned energy boost and the fact that they won't have to do a massive inclination change like they would when launching into a polar orbit.

Polar launches absolutely have a place, but really only for certain types of missions - spying missions and certain Earth-observation missions. These make up an important, but relatively small amount of the total missions for satellites. So while NASA and other countries do polar launches, it wouldn't make sense to set up all your launch sites for polar launches.

Also, you can do a polar launch from any latitude. In fact, the only reason why US launches to polar orbits from Vandenberg CA and Alaska is because you can launch south from there and not fly over other countries during your boost phase. You can't do that from Florida. Other programs like Russia and the ESA do launch from much lower latitudes because they either launch over water to the south or they don't care who they fly over (lol Kazakhstan).


You don't want your comm centers in the south for any particular reason. If you want global coverage, you put your comm centers in roughly 120 degree spacings across the globe (as practical). So for example, NASA has major comm stations in the US, Spain and Australia. For less than total global coverage, you put the comm stations where it is convenient. Radiation in space has next to no input into that decision, to be honest.
 
All this is based on what we know now, not what we knew back in 1961 when NASA Houston was started--as the MANNED space center. There are valid scientific reasons why Houston was chosen, and not just party politics (although I'm sure politics were not completely out of it, since NASA is a government agency). Van Allen Belts is one of them. And by the way the ISS is impacted by the Van Allens, even today. We rad-hard electronics specifically for the ISS, and we research the possible impact of prolonged exposure to humans. It might not be smack dab in the middle, but due to the prolonged exposure and the extremely small geometries in semiconductors today, it matters. The further away you get, the better.

Sites like Canaveral, White Sands, and Los Alamos have nothing to do with politics, it was to avoid population centers. It was just after WW2; we were researching nuclear missiles.
 
You have to rad-harden practically everything that is sent into space and CME's and CR's have as much, if not more (in most cases) to do with that as the VA's directly.

The only part of the VA that the ISS passes through is the South Atlantic Anomaly (and even then it's a transient phenomenon). It's not a huge deal and there are many more sources of radiation that the ISS contends with than the VA.

How can the VA possibly have anything to do with Houston? That doesn't even make sense. Yeah, it's the manned spaceflight center but they don't actually fly out of Houston. The VA had literally 0 impact on choosing Houston as a center. I don't even know how you are making that connection - they completely, totally and physically unconnected.

It was a political decision, first and foremost. You don't build a major space center in a cow pasture far away from both the production facilities and the launch facilities otherwise.


Also, you can't get 'further' away from the VA than the ISS already is unless you took the ISS all the way up to geostationary orbit. The VA is at a higher altitude than the ISS (except where it sometimes dips due to the SAA mentioned previously). And you can't put the ISS at GEO for practical reasons.
 
True story, the first time I saw that, I just thought it was an ISS photo of the Earth and ignored it. Truly spectacular!
 
I was all hyped for actually finding liquid water but nope. They found stuff that looked like there may have been water. Granted the evidence is really strong and that it was very recent that there was water, but I'm not happy until they actually see it on the ground.
 
There is seasonal water, albeit very very thin layers of it, flowing in these areas as described. I.e. not just as some point in the past, but seasonally occurring presently and in the future. This is a HUGE development. For a while "best case" has been maybe finding some water below the surface, not literally flowing down hillsides!

It's also significant as it creates the possibility for bacterial life like those found in similar super arid spots of the Atacama Desert, which is an area used to prep Martian soil experiments since it so similar to the surface of Mars in that it is extremely, inhospitably dry and has been for millions of years. Some of these bacteria are also importantly known to be highly resistant to high levels of radiation, important for any potential martian biology at or near the surface.
 
It is a pretty significant development for sure - I wonder how long it will take to get samples of said water
 
I'd be pretty nervous about contamination. We seem to be OK at getting spacecraft to Mars, but getting all the hardy bacteria off them before they leave... not so much.
 
Those are just the first wave of the terrestrial colonization of the solar system :p.
 
Current NASA policy disallows landings at sites that are thought to have a high probablility of having liquid water for the contamination issues listed above.

As for sample return - even if the contamination issues were worked out, we do not really have the tech to return samples from Mars at the moment. Heck, they don't even have the tech to carry around prepared samples in a rover. The Curiosity follow-on planned to be launched in 2020 was originally meant to tote samples around with it for retrieval by a later mission at some point in the future but that proved too complicated and expensive so now it will only prep samples and dump them on the ground for later retrieval. There are no real plans for said retrieval mission at the moment.
 
Any kind of experiment to detect life (whatever that means) in situ? I dont know, maybe mass spectrometry to detect proteins or other compounds characteristic of life. i know mass spectrometers have used before in some probes.
 
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