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The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Lemon Merchant, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I delved into 2A culture. A lot of it really is insanely paranoid. People are tribal, and there is a lot of virtue signaling. People get status based on hating governments. And amusingly, there's little acceptance that other people deserve full rights. The 2A implies Hawaii should be allowed to have nukes but not Iran ...
     
  2. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy I swear..

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    lol, k.
     
  3. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    The Supreme Court disagrees. And they have disagreed since 1886. And since we have 132 years of Supreme Court justices who have dedicated their entire lives to interpreting the Constitution disagreeing with you, some random guy from New Jersey, I'm going to go out on a limb and say your interpretation isn't anywhere near correct.

    Rights don't require practical arguments. I guess we should just repeal the 3rd Amendment too since there's no practical reason for that to exist either right? How about the 4th Amendment? We've already all sold our data and privacy to corporations, so what practical reason do we have for privacy when it comes to the government?

    Basically, my point is I shouldn't have to explain or justify why I need my rights. Any of them. And neither should you or any other American.

    You say this as if gun owners are wrong in thinking this way. Don't make me bust out the PMs between us where you admit gun owners are correct when they say this about the anti-gun crowd.

    Indeed. In fact one woman just used a gun to express her disapproval of YouTube's new monetization policy.

    This is an odd thing to say. The 2nd Amendment implies no such thing. All it says is the people have to right to form militias and the right to bear arms. The 2nd Amendment makes no comment on foreign policy or what other sovereign nations should or should not have as part of their military arsenals.
     
  4. Yeekim

    Yeekim Chieftain

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    Suppose we're discussing whether or not the 2nd amendment ought to be repealed?
     
  5. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Your point is wrong and involves a fundamental misunderstanding of how Constitutional rights work, and what they are. They actually do require practical examination to be protected from being curtailed, because rights do not exist in a vacuum.

    So for example, a statement that "It's my right under the Second Amendment to own a firearm" is an overbroad and incorrect generalization. First, we need to know who you are. Then, we need to know what you mean by "firearm." Your statement simply cannot be assessed as an appropriate assertion of rights without first reducing it to a practical application.

    The question isn't about why you need your rights, it's about what your rights actually are. I agree that the "why" question is self-evident, but we're dealing with the "what" question here.
     
  6. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

     
  7. Arwon

    Arwon

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    I'm also not sure that it's the right of all people to bear all arms at all times in all places without any conditions or rules
     
    SS-18 ICBM likes this.
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    I would say anyone who talks about repealing or amending any part of the Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments to the Constitution in case you weren't aware) is not to be trusted and dismiss any further arguments they make out of hand. We are talking about the fundamental rights the Founding Fathers thought every American should have. There also isn't anything in the Bill of Rights that is so unreasonable that it is worthy of repeal so it comes across as highly suspicious when anyone starts talking about doing so.

    In my opinion, if there is one part of the Constitution that should remain completely unaltered for as long as the United States exists, it's the Bill of Rights.

    You quote articles from obviously biased sources while I quote actual Supreme Court rulings. Do you see why I don't take you seriously? Protip: when it comes to which source is more reliable on matters regarding the Constitution, Supreme Court ruling > NY Times.

    Seriously Lexicus, do your own research. Stop letting other people tell you what to believe.
     
  9. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Good job mini-Trump...when called out for presenting something in the most misleading manner possible, double down. Now, shift to bluster like the pompous clown of a president would do.
     
  10. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    You do yourself a pretty grave disservice when you dismiss an op-ed from a former Supreme Court justice as "biased," rather than actually respond to any of the substance.

    I get that you've been talked into making gun ownership a large part of your identity, but that doesn't mean you can simply assert rights that don't exist and handwave away any opposing viewpoints as biased.
     
  11. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    So, with this in mind, would you care to explain why you felt that the teenagers protesting about gun laws should have their ability to do so curtailed?
     
    hobbsyoyo, Valka D'Ur, Arwon and 2 others like this.
  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    No its not. No more strawmen please. Attack the arguments that I made, not the ones you wish I made.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
  13. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    You haven't quoted anything from any Supreme Court ruling, only vaguely asserted that an unnamed 1886 Supreme Court case supports your position. Well, here is an excerpt from Justice Stevens' dissent in the Heller case, since apparently the fact that a summary of the same arguments was published in the "biased" New York Times means you can't process it:


    O irony, thy name is this pair of sentences
     
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  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Why bother? @Lexicus posted like what 15 minutes ago his very consistent position that he is coming for your guns... which, since it bears on your threat to "bust out the PMs", is exactly what I referenced in my PM to you as a show of good faith, that I recognize that everyone does not have the same attitude as I do about gun regulation. So bust away my good man, my positions are consistent whether in PM or public.

    The whole reason I PM'ed you about these issues was to have a rational, candid discussion where you wouldn't feel like I was being condescending to you, and the other stuff you accused me off. The point was to show a sign of respect and turn the heat down so we could talk one-on-one without any need for grandstanding... not to have you try to throw my PMs up in my face and imply that I'm hiding something... I have nothing to hide... publish all our PMs, if you want, that's your 1st Amendment right. Sheesh... try to show a guy some respect... and what do you get? "I'll publish your PMs to win the debate!!:mad:" SMFH.:shake:
     
  15. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    @Commodore

    I recommend that you edit the PMs so they say whatever you want them to, then bust them out. Since no one has any expectations that you would argue in good faith you really have nothing to lose.
     
  16. SS-18 ICBM

    SS-18 ICBM Oscillator

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    Isn't this the sort of one-liner moderators really, really, really frown upon?
     
  17. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    not as much as snitches. ;)
     
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  18. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    The irony of using “the wall”— which refers to leftist firing squads executing rich people during the Spanish Civil War— as a metaphor for the liberal restriction of gun ownership to rich people is lost on you?
     
  19. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    I think it was intentional, actually. Though I took "plenty of space on the wall" as a reference to mounting their heads as trophies.
     
  20. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Warlord

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    I think gun owners would be wrong in thinking that way, but only because the word "secretly" was in the statement.
     

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