The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Gorbles]

Enabled, spread and supported (up until the actual acts are committed) by the GOP, Conservative movement, Right Wing Media, Trump etc.

And in case folks feel like jumping in at this point to say "well that's not what the Republicans actually enable", when the shooter is using the actual (false) claims of a sitting Republican president, maybe Republicans should be doing more to, y'know, get him out. Which they're not.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Decentralized but coherent, just like Al Qaeda. What are the president going to bomb now?

Why would Trump take action against them?

These are his people, his allies, his supporters.

And in case folks feel like jumping in at this point to say "well that's not what the Republicans actually enable", when the shooter is using the actual (false) claims of a sitting Republican president, maybe Republicans should be doing more to, y'know, get him out. Which they're not.

You are trying to apply facts and logic to this... a big mistake.

 

[Cheetah]

It's a new world.

Is it, or are we just back where we left off 90 years ago?

I'm pretty much desensitized to mass shootings in the US, but if this is more like what happened in Norway and New Zealand, it's quite a worrying development.

 

[Arwon]

Is it, or are we just back where we left off 90 years ago?

I'm pretty much desensitized to mass shootings in the US, but if this is more like what happened in Norway and New Zealand, it's quite a worrying development.

It's a new old world, I guess. Random politically motivated violence isn't new, nativist violence isn't new. But the erasure of the rhetorical and political lines between mainstream cultural conservatism and simple white supremacy and fascism hasn't been seen for decades, and certainly not with our mass telecommunications and the remote radicalisation it can aid.

 

[mitsho]

Coming from the German-speaking world, this reminded me at first more of the RAF (Red Army Faction) murders in the Seventies, that was terrorism. In this decade, you can draw a straight line from the NSU-murders, Christchurch, Utoya, the Charleston Church shooting and so on. The Internet has made it a global phenomena.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Guarantee you all that nothing will change from the GOP, they'll deflect but continue down the path of enabling these shooters and the rank and file Republican supporters will continue vote for the GOP, continue to support them and continue to enable them, because they don't view white supremacy as an existential threat or even a threat at all. It stops being naiveity and becomes willful ignorance at some point and that point was crossed a long time ago.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah you can definitely draw some parallels with things like the RAF and Weather Underground

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Islamists are thinking somebody is stealing his job.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Islamists are thinking somebody is stealing his job.

They're giving them a serious run for their money, but watch as Conservatives downplay and ignore this.

 

[EgonSpengler]

So this is terrorism, right? Not a crime anymore. These acts have a clear ideology behind them and are trying to achieve a political will.

I expect the shooter will be charged with a series of "hate crimes." iirc, in the United States, the terror you are trying to inflict on a population by murdering a small number of that population is not itself a crime, only the murders themselves are. As an example, Dylann Roof openly admitted that he was a White supremacist and was trying to spark a war. The people in the church weren't his (only) targets; in murdering 9 people, he was actually attacking ~37 million of us (or more, if he would include Jews, Latinos and White 'race traitors' as targets of the war). If Roof believed that his attack on the church would affect only the people inside the church, I think he might not have bothered. He saw his actions as taking place within a larger picture, but our criminal justice system doesn't. (And to be clear, this isn't a broad, philosophical principle at work, of focusing only on the individual crime and the immediate victim. We do have laws for going after people based on the 'bigger picture.' Racketeering laws for taking on organized crime, for example, where the overall crime is larger than the sum of its parts. Racketeering laws have been used to pursue people for insider trading, and have recently been used against the folks involved in the college admissions scandal.)

EDIT: CNN notes that the FBI is "opening a domestic terror investigation" but doesn't provide any more detail. It could mean they'll pursue people associated with the shooter - "aiding and abetting", or what have you.



Just now I'm hearing about another shooting, in Dayton, Ohio. 9 dead, 16 injured, so far.

 

[Kyriakos]

Another massacre, and for no reason at all. Hispanics (a silly term, imo) are more likely to vote republican anyway (more 'traditional' values), if they aren't seen as the enemy by brain-dead "white supremacists".

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump and the GOP making America great again one mass shooting at a time.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Has Trump blamed the Democrats for the shootings yet? I know that's coming, usually he waits for at least two tweets after saying 'thoughts and prayers' before he blames atrocities on his opponents rather than his supporters.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

No hot takes yet here, but give it time

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Has Trump blamed the Democrats for the shootings yet? I know that's coming, usually he waits for at least two tweets after saying 'thoughts and prayers' before he blames atrocities on his opponents rather than his supporters.

"Many people" in the comments sections of Breitbarf are saying it. I'm sure he will be citing that reliable source soon enough.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Kevin McCarthy (GOP leader in the House) is blaming video games for these mass shootings.

He says he's 'seen studies' that back this up and of course the Fox News host doesn't dispute that despite all of the studies done that refute this. And we'd have more definitive studies if the GOP would allow the CDC (center for disease control) study gun violence.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...thy-says-video-games-partly-blame/1915061001/

Edit: Funny thing, the article points out that no less than Antoni Scalia argued in court that studies show there is no link between video games and mass shootings.

 

[Berzerker]

the guy didn't like either party and accuses both of betrayal, he's an anti-consumerism Malthusian environmentalist who hates American imperialism, corporations and immigration/open borders and its effect on wages

 

[Timsup2nothin]

the guy didn't like either party and accuses both of betrayal, he's an anti-consumerism Malthusian environmentalist who hates American imperialism, corporations and immigration/open borders and its effect on wages

Who "just happens" to quote a whole bunch of D'ump's more egregious lies about the subject.

Just out of curiosity, do you realize that the vast majority of Trumpists routinely say that they dislike the GOP? Generally speaking when they say "GOP" they mean "everyone but Trump, they're all RINOs," but they actually fully support the GOP now that D'ump has "restored the party to the true path." When you say that this guy "didn't like either party" you are in fact describing the typical Trumpist.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

the guy didn't like either party and accuses both of betrayal, he's an anti-consumerism Malthusian environmentalist who hates American imperialism, corporations and immigration/open borders and its effect on wages

You are lying.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You are lying.

Well, yeah, that's the short version.