The U.S.=the tower of Babel?

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
The U.S. should make English the official language. You know, you can get a driver's license in Hungarian, but if you don't speak English, how in God's name are you going to read the street signs?

(Hungarian Guy): "Hmm...red means...ah! I remember my Eastern Bloc history class! Red means revolution! Viva la revolution!"

*screech*

*crash*

Some immigrants can speak better english than Americans!

In fact, you Americans don't even speak proper english!

When are you guys going to learn to use the letter 'u' and say 'lieutenant' correctly?

 

[Pongui]

American english reached it's apex in the 40's. It was very pleasant then. Probably the new wave of actors who had never learned elocution are to blame.

 

[Homie]

I agree with rmsharpe, english should be made the official language of the USA. Then everybody would have to learn english fluently, which would make for better communication and people would feel more like One people, the feeling of togetherness would be stronger. Also the workplace would be more effective.

 

[eighty]

To lightly touch on the impetus of this post: has anyone read Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson? I think this is the book where the circumstances involved with the Tower of Babel were postulated to derive from a type of virus passed by visual coding into DNA structures. The resultant process was the degeneration of language centers in the brain and a splintering of one original language into many others.
Just a thought.

And racism sucks, but it is real and prevents any melting pot. Just look at reservations, inner-cities, or any enclaves such as Chinatowns or the Cubans in Miami to see some obvious examples.

 

[Damien]

Originally posted by eighty
To lightly touch on the impetus of this post: has anyone read Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson? I think this is the book where the circumstances involved with the Tower of Babel were postulated to derive from a type of virus passed by visual coding into DNA structures. The resultant process was the degeneration of language centers in the brain and a splintering of one original language into many others.
Just a thought.

///Very interesting.I read that people fitted the language to their environment.(how to say mountain when u don't know it exists?);tuaregs have many words to describe the sand n its different colours for example.

And racism sucks, but it is real and prevents any melting pot. Just look at reservations, inner-cities, or any enclaves such as Chinatowns or the Cubans in Miami to see some obvious examples.
///Yes but sometimes,some people stemin from immigration reject others n even if it's a minority it gives a bad image of immigration n i think people shouldn't hide the problem by sayin"only for a colour of skin".There's a real problem n it's not about color but culture.The problem is with people not wanting to follow the national customs n laws,rejecting others.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Let me say straight off I'm speaking as a poster here, not forum moderator.
That said, let us press on.

Originally posted by Lt.Col. Kilgore
The U.S. isn't any melting pot.

It most certainly is.

When I was in high school there were the cafeteria tables where the great majority of the people there were white. Then no too far away would be a table of mostly blacks, and one with mostly Hispanics. Its obviously not conciously segregated this way, but sub-conciously we are still unsure of other races, because there are so many different ways of thinking amongst Americans.

So, from your luchroom days, we now know all about segregation.
When I went to FK Lane HS in Brooklyn NY, Black, white red, all colors sat together with their friends.

That differences is greatly increased when race is factored in because of past family experiences and unintentional segregation.

In YOUR opinion.

This country will never be a melting pot because whites have a major problem with race.

Bullsh1t.
I have NEVER seen whites talk race, I have seen a number of Blacks obsessed by it however.

It seems to me that most whites have some kind of issue with racism.

More nonsense, you either have limited expossure or walked into a clan meeting.

Either they are against it like most are or they are racists themselves.

The most racist people I ever met were Japanese.
Your putting forth your own bias as facts.

I believe there is something that most American whites retain in their psyche about race.

More bullsh1t, that is the second time you outright insulted me with a steyerotype.

Whether it's genetic or cultural or a combination is to me unknown.

RACISM IN WHITES IS GENETIC?????
That sir, is THE most racist comment I ever heard.
You need to take a LONG look in the mirror, YOU seem to be what your decrying.

But there is truth when people say whites have a propensity toward racism.

More racist bull on your part.

I believe it to be the case.

Your DEAD wrong.

How many other nations or peoples are as savagely belligerent towards other perceived races?

You just displayed your extreme iggnorence, what race DOESN'T do it?

I'm not talking about religious or ethnic differences either.

No, your talking pure hate.

The Japanese might come close, but they are more xenophobic than pure racist. And no xenophobia is not a euphemism for racism.

What a disgusting post this was, you sir, if you really, truly believe that post, are a sickening individual.

Now, back to being a moderator:
This whole post was a mockery by this Kilgore, as racist and biased a thing as I have ever seen at Civfanatics, such garbage WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED HERE.

I only left this, and answered outside my duties, because hatred of this magnatude most be opposed.

This kind of garbage has no place here, or in any other place for that matter.

Do not repeat this kind of thing Kilgore, you are cautioned offically.

 

[drake]

Anyone thats ever lived in any sort of urban area knows that this country is a genuine melting pot. What other country on earth can you find representatives from every other country in it? I have nothing to back this up, but I'd guess the US is the only one.

 

[Damien]

No,as i said every country has been settled by many people who took the customs of that country.The U.S. is not an exception.Europe is a melting pot of Celtic,latin n Germanic cultures with other elements.(arabic,hindu,etc).Cosmopolitanism is far from dating back to the U.S.
In ancient times,it was already the case.In the Roman Empire n even since the civilization exists(since the Sumerians).

 

[Padma]

The term "melting pot" is an old one, and probably not an accurate depiction of the country today. But it's still probably the best image available.

Using that image as an analogy, it's safe to say there are a few "lumps" in the mix. As was pointed out by someone above, it takes time to assimilate different cultures. Generations will pass before some of the current "lumps" are smoothed out, if ever.

And what's wrong with a few "lumps" anyway? Homogenity can be boring. Variety adds spice to life.

 

[drake]

Indeed Padma.....just because every American isn't a clone of the next one doesn't mean this isn't a melting pot.

 

[Padma]

The original notion of the melting pot was that immigrants (or at least their children) would shed their old culture and embrace a new American one, i.e., homogenity. Unfortunately, noone has come up with a better image than a melting pot. (Although I have seen many sociologists try.)

All I was saying was it is a "lumpy" melting pot: there are parts that don't melt in. And I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with that.

 

[Damien]

What i call a melting-pot is inter-marriage or relationships between ethnics

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by Padma
The original notion of the melting pot was that immigrants (or at least their children) would shed their old culture and embrace a new American one, i.e., homogenity. Unfortunately, noone has come up with a better image than a melting pot. (Although I have seen many sociologists try.)

All I was saying was it is a "lumpy" melting pot: there are parts that don't melt in. And I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with that.

I rather like to think of America as a tossed salad. There is some uniformity (the dressing or vinegarette), then the European culture is the largest individual bloc (the lettuce), with the other cultures forming the rest of the ingredients. Each ingredient on it's own is rather bland, but when put together the whole is a wonderful dish. Each part of the whole retains most of it's individual identity, yet still mixes with the rest in a harmonious way. The "melting pot" metaphor was never really a good one.

 

[Damien]

The American society=a tossed salad?

 

[Gastric ReFlux]

Originally posted by Damien
This thread is inspired by "America's palestinian problem".
It is often said by americans that the U.S. is the mix of all the cultures n peoples in the world united under common values under a nation.This is kinda tower of Babel so?
I disagree with it of course.80% of the Americans stem from Europeans.Let's not forget that there are problems with Blacks n Hispanics moreover.There were problems with Irish too b4 but they were assimilated and there's no prob anymore.
English is the most used n official language n many people speak another one at home.Americans say that there's NO official language...yet what language is taught in classes?Can u choose your class depending on your language?
Don't take it as bash,that's not the purpose.
All i wanted to say is that to me America isn't a world melting-pot,it's an european one.
It could be said that the U.S. is the modern Roman Empire(better than the latter though).The Roman Empire was a melting-pot too and what united it was the awe for the roman culture.
It may be believed that some states are "ethnic states" or trash states:N.Hampshire got 98% WASP n Washington D.C. 66% BLACKS,Southern States got high% of Blacks or Hispanics n it's said that Blacks are going to S.STATES.Do u believe there's a danger of ghettoization of some states?
To u,what is the problem of Hispanics n Blacks n do u believe that they're gonna create their own countries(i don't)?There are problems with Arabs n Blacks in France too(10% of the french pop is muslim,6 million/60)
Cops,bus,doctors,etc don't wanna go in some french suburbs anymore(the best known ones are the ones of the parisian region).Sometimes,cops are trapped,lights were broken n a crowd of 100s with 10cmX10cm cobblestones(used on building sites) n metallic bars wait for em.What about american suburbs?
Feel free to comment on what i said in that post,i know u will

If there's a discussion about Babel and communication, I would suggest that the use of spaces after punctuation marks like periods, commas, colons, semi-colons, makes for much easier reading.

I could write it like this.By crowding and using no spaces,it becomes much harder for the eye,and how it distinguishes between the words.

 

[Globber]

Originally posted by Damien
The American society=a tossed salad?

Well, there are sure a lot of tossers... Oh, did I say that??

 

[eighty]

Just thought I should add this: at the genetic level of DNA, science has been unable to find differences between races. Which means, of course, it is a social construct. As an example, there are thousands of documented cases in the US where a person's birth certificate indicates a different "race" than their death certificate, showing how social perception of race changes over time.

 

[Damien]

What's intended by race is color of skin n culture.Hispanics have the choice i think.

 

[Pongui]

Tossed salad. I like it.

Let's say that America is a hearty stew. Whether eaten with fork or spoon is open to debate.

Canada is more salad-like, I think. Multiculturalism tries to maintain and promote differences. That only makes sense if you've already decided that cultural differences are a good thing. Early on, Canadians made that descision, and we've been trying to make it work in law and in everyday life since then.

In Vancouver, neither english nor french (the two official languages) are most commonly spoken. English has the highest percentage, I think, if you don't lump all the chinese dialects into one group. Most people here can speak some english.

 

[knowltok2]

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux



If there's a discussion about Babel and communication, I would suggest that the use of spaces after punctuation marks like periods, commas, colons, semi-colons, makes for much easier reading.

We've tried to get him to change, but so far, no luck. We have another poster who seems to hit enter every sentence or two. I find that depending on the topic, I tend to read them less. Which is sad because I think they both have a lot to offer conversations.

Tossed salad, Beef Stew, I love it! I used to make this rice dish using a bunch of meat, cheese, and spices. Whatever I had handy. Mmmm Mmmmm!