The USA Might Be Going Down

[Narz]

Nothing lasts forever.

Anyway, industrial captialism is a bubble that'll likely go pop in the next few decades if not sooner.

 

[Tssha]

Unfettered industrial capitalism is a bubble; regulated industrial capitalism is a sensible way of running an economy. Anything that crosses a moral threshold or unfairly burdens society either gets banned or costed and then the system works.

Anyone who says deregulation is going to "stimulate the economy" needs to be rigorously vetted for each and every regulation they remove (and hey, maybe a few of them do need to be removed, but it's important to know WHY the fence was built before you tear it down...there could be a T-rex on the other side of it! ).



Wealth disparity is the biggest problem that's holding the American economy back. When you tackle that, and working class Americans have spending (and saving) money again, the economy will do a lot better. I'd say the government is incentivised to do this because of the increasing tax revenues they'd get but:

1) Not everyone agrees that this fixes the problem (yeah, it's debatable, but we've tried trickle-down economics and it's failed miserably).

2) Elections cost so much that congresspeople have to spend all their time fundraising instead of educating themselves on the issues (I've seen footage of the call centres...brrr!). And let's not even get into the shortcut of attending a "special lecture" instead of an informational hearing so you can get a large donation. Thus, they're incentivised to fund-raise for their campaigns, not to build their tax base.



And, frankly, Trump has displayed abysmal judgment in not only his public communications, but in policy positions, cabinet appointments (Flynn, DeVos, lol!), and foreign affairs (taking Taiwan's phone call...amateur hour). AT BEST we're going to have the worst presidency in history. At worst, we are looking at the end of democracy and possibly the world as we know it - but, that's only the worst case scenario (I peg a nuclear war at somewhere less than 2% odds ).

In any case, brace yourselves Americans, you're in four a rough four years...ah hell, who'm I kidding? Enjoy the next 8 years folks!

 

[civvver]

I'm not against corporations as long as the wealth generated by the labor working within those organizations is given a fair share of that wealth. If labor does not get a fair share then corporations have lost the right to the legal fiction of their existence.

Again, more wealth is being generated in the US per capita than was 40-50 years ago (when adjusted for inflation); the diminishing returns for labor in the US and decreasing spending power of most citizens is because of the distribution of that wealth, not global competition.

My wages have gone up 9% in the last two years and 100% in the last 10. So it's all relative I suppose, you need to be in the right industry. Labor produces more but demand for it isn't as high as a result.

The market will have bubbles and slumps, but yes stocks can go up forever indefinitely because capitalism is not a zero sum game, and every time more people are born that's more consumers and producers of stuff. Until population growth slumps why would the stock market as an index drop indefinitely? If you want to talk bubbles it should be specific industries like oil and other old school techs that will get replaced by new ones.

 

[rah]

Rah, I don't think the market will rise forever. It's a little foolish to take it as a given.

Never said it would. Just pointing out that it has over the course of it's history. And only to dispute those that claim it's a scam. It's been far from a scam and has been one of the best investment. "OVER TIME" Yes there will be ups and downs and once again I'll repeat the disclaimer that past performance is not an indicator of the future. And as I get a bit closer to retirement I'll probably be pulling some out and doing less risky investments. As always timing will be everything.

 

[aelf]

He hasn't put anything before them yet. The chair of the appropriations committee said recently he has no intention of paying for the wall. Fiscal conservatives might balk at the +5 trillion over 10 years budget he's preparing. Issa's already calling for a special prosecutor on the Russia stuff. McCain and Graham have inkled that they'll stand on Congressional authority. Boehner, from the sidelines, is admitting that they won't repeal Obamacare. On this point, it's worth waiting for a bit to see how things play out.

Hasn't McCain voted 100℅ with the Trump administration? From my perspective, it's all just threats with no action so far. Do you know more?

A racist has already shot an immigrant dead for being an immigrant. More to come in "fine" America?

 

[Lohrenswald]

A racist has already shot an immigrant dead for being an immigrant. More to come in "fine" America?

Natives have already been attacked for being immigrants

 

[Flying Pig]

Hasn't McCain voted 100℅ with the Trump administration? From my perspective, it's all just threats with no action so far. Do you know more?

94.7%. For context, however, this means that there are only two Republican senators less 'loyal' than him, and one of them is Rand Paul. It's also true that it's early days and many of the votes are theoretically uncontentious (Cabinet picks, for example). Only five Republican senators have broken ranks at all so far.

 

[Lexicus]

My wages have gone up 9% in the last two years and 100% in the last 10. So it's all relative I suppose, you need to be in the right industry. Labor produces more but demand for it isn't as high as a result.

There is nothing 'relative' about it. Your wages aren't representative of everyone else's wages. Real wages for most workers have actually gone down a bit since the 1970s.

 

[civvver]

There is nothing 'relative' about it. Your wages aren't representative of everyone else's wages. Real wages for most workers have actually gone down a bit since the 1970s.

That's not my problem. Get into a field where wages are going up. Do you know how hard it is to find good tech people these days? I do a lot of interviewing for positions at my company.

The days of just show up and put part B into part A on an assembly line and make $70,000 a year are gone. That's life.

If there are too many barriers to entry into such fields we should address those. Not artificially prop up obsolete jobs. One day my job may be obsolete once AI learning can do it and I'll have to do something else.

 

[galdre]

Who is talking about propping up obsolete jobs? It would be nice if everyone could simply get a job that pays better, but there wouldn't be enough of those jobs for every person to do, and the education required for them is too expensive for most to afford.

Besides, if we have lower-skill jobs we want done (like service sector), they should pay a living wage.

 

[Lexicus]

That's not my problem.

"fudge you Jack, I've got mine" is widely agreed not to be a proper basis on which to run a civilized society.

If there are too many barriers to entry into such fields we should address those. Not artificially prop up obsolete jobs. One day my job may be obsolete once AI learning can do it and I'll have to do something else.

Or we could just pay people more money.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Hasn't McCain voted 100℅ with the Trump administration? From my perspective, it's all just threats with no action so far. Do you know more?

A racist has already shot an immigrant dead for being an immigrant. More to come in "fine" America?

Well the "fine" was some other poster, not me. You'll likely not find me finding anything fine in Trump's administration.

And there's every possibility that Republican rumblings are idle threats, yes. But Trump is no Republican, and he teeters on the edge of being a liability to Republicans, and as soon as he is, they'll bolt from him and hamstring most of the significant damage he can do directly. They earnestly want a new tax scheme, and so they're praying he doesn't implode before they get that through. So they'll hang with him as long as they can, yes.

One of my chief hopes is for Republican resistance. It's a slim hope, but in an era of little hope, one grasps even at slim hopes.

 

[Lexicus]

One of my chief hopes is for Republican resistance. It's a slim hope, but in an era of little hope, one grasps even at slim hopes.

That's not a hope. Assuming Trump doesn't just destroy the Republic, the Republican Party politically surviving his Presidency would be a terrible outcome. It's becoming clear that the Republican Party is an obstacle for the country's further development.

 

[Gori the Grey]

The Republican party will survive his presidency. That won't be a terrible outcome. The Republican Party is an obstacle to certain kinds of development, you won't get any argument from me. The conservative wing is in some areas explicitly committed to opposing development. For all that, America will develop, but along lines determined by the negotiation between more progressive outlooks and conservative or even reactionary ones. That's how it ever was, and how it will ever be. That's even how it should be, frustrating as that may be to those who are hot for development.

 

[Lexicus]

The conservative wing is in some areas explicitly committed to opposing development. For all that, America will develop, but along lines determined by the negotiation between more progressive outlooks and conservative or even reactionary ones. That's how it ever was, and how it will ever be. That's even how it should be, frustrating as that may be to those who are hot for development.

I'm not opposed to the existence of a conservative political party. The Republican Party isn't conservative, though, just racist and kleptocratic. "Keep America White" and "Let the rich rob everyone" aren't legitimate positions that deserve a seat at the table.

 

[Gori the Grey]

They've got a seat at the table. The second one will arguably always have a seat at the table. In fact, the second one owns the table.

 

[Lexicus]

They've got a seat at the table. The second one will arguably always have a seat at the table. In fact, the second one owns the table.

I suppose the question then becomes, when the table is on a train car headed over a cliff, at what point does it become a moral imperative to flip the table over and occupy the locomotive?