The Welsh Blind-spot

well, in France, Scots are known for kilts and tartans, highlanders, bagpipe, antienglish feeling, whisky and greed. Add to that ghosts, castle, and Nessie. Classic scot Name :Macsomething.
Irish are known because of their representation in american movie (the irish policemen in boston), IRA, clover, green, St Patrick, Riverdance and beer consumption. Classic Irish Name: O'something

Welsh are known for...heu, well, there must be something...let me find something...well, they play rugby and finish last of the tournament (except the last few years, but for me, 5 nations was between England, France and Ireland or Scotland)!!!...and the classic welsh name is...what is it? *look on wiki* Jones? but jones is an english name!!! Indiana Jones is Welsh? just plain wrong!!! let's just find something truly welsh...they have a prince!!! The prince of Wales!!! but isn't he the son of the english queen??!!!
Well, there is the longbow!!! Used by the english army against french troops during the 100 years war...


Now, you know why wales isn't very known outside wales.

Just looked on the wiki:
national symbol: the leek!!! you people are looking for anonymity!!!
 
Figaro said:
For example - it still seems to be OK to make jokes about Wales. People who profess to the most liberal of views often think nothing of cracking the occasional sheep "joke", but when you think about it these are basically racial stereotyping.
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That's not racial at all. "Racism" is way overused. I seriously doubt there is any racial difference between the fine folks in Wales when compared to the fine folks in the rest of the UK.

For example, I malign Kansans for anything and everything under the sun, but I guarantee you they are racially about the same as Missourians. Call it "Stateism" if you want, or some other "ism", but not racism.
 
(except the last few years, but for me, 5 nations was between England, France and Ireland or Scotland)!!!
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Oh dear, still bitter about the Welsh 2005 Grand slam victory, eh Frenchie?! LOL. we weren't so crap then, were we? ;)

and the classic welsh name is...what is it? *look on wiki* Jones? but jones is an english name!!!
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Actually "Jones" is an English translation of a Welsh surname that steadily became obsolete as links with the English proved to be beneficial for Welshmen and Women in employment.

Jones is one such name frequently found in Wales, but as are Williams and Wynn.

Indiana Jones is Welsh?
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No, Indiana Jones is an American character. ;)

let's just find something truly welsh...they have a prince!!! The prince of Wales!!! but isn't he the son of the english queen??!!!
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Actually, if had even bothered to look. The Welsh HAD royalty, but all were executed by the English. The Welsh person who was called the prince ofWales was Owain Glyndwr, who after a largely successful campaignagainst the English, disappeared after his inability to make Wales an independent state. As part and parcel of being subjucated by England, The English royalty appointed the title of "Prince of Wales", reserved for their lineage in order to maintain some control over the Welsh.

Well, there is the longbow!!! Used by the english army against french troops during the 100 years war...
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They also turned against the English in the massive rebellion against Edward I. ;)

As for the French, it's a wonder they fought at all considering their abilities against the Germans in WWII where they begged fro British help, eh? ;)

People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones... :)
 
That's not racial at all. "Racism" is way overused. I seriously doubt there is any racial difference between the fine folks in Wales when compared to the fine folks in the rest of the UK.
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When people use the term racism, it's not necessarily regarding a race, but it can be an ethnicity as well; usually one down on its luck. Discrimination is too vague a term and too long, and bigotry is too harsh. I'd argue racism is too harsh as well, but come up with a word which means discrimination against an ethnicity and you win life!
 
LAnkou said:
well, in France, Scots are known for kilts and tartans, highlanders, bagpipe, antienglish feeling, whisky and greed. Add to that ghosts, castle, and Nessie. Classic scot Name :Macsomething.
Irish are known because of their representation in american movie (the irish policemen in boston), IRA, clover, green, St Patrick, Riverdance and beer consumption. Classic Irish Name: O'something

Welsh are known for...heu, well, there must be something...let me find something...well, they play rugby and finish last of the tournament (except the last few years, but for me, 5 nations was between England, France and Ireland or Scotland)!!!...and the classic welsh name is...what is it? *look on wiki* Jones? but jones is an english name!!! Indiana Jones is Welsh? just plain wrong!!! let's just find something truly welsh...they have a prince!!! The prince of Wales!!! but isn't he the son of the english queen??!!!
Well, there is the longbow!!! Used by the english army against french troops during the 100 years war...
Click to expand...

This is partially due to the language issue... most things that are idiosyncratic of Wales are generally tied in with the Welsh language - see, I could name a million things that are very distinctly Welsh but you wouldn't have heard of them simply because they're not in English.

As a point of highly dorky interest (people uninterested in fine linguistics please skip this paragraph), the classic Welsh name (in the "McX" or "O'X" or "Xson") name would be "ap X" (so Dafydd ap Gwylim, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd). The "ap" means "son" and has the same basic origin as "Mc" ("ap" being a derivative of "Mab") - at the point that Brittonic and Gaelic became distinct many sounds that were Ps or Bs in Brittonic were Cs/Ks/Qs in Gaelic.

To be fair, the reason that Welsh History isn't covered that much in school curriculum in Wales is because it was feared (by Westminster) to invoke nationalism in the Welsh. To an extent, this remains true today.

Welsh schools aren't really permitted to teach that much Welsh history because the government fears a resurfacing of Welsh nationalism or nationalist tendencies. There really is no other explanation for it IMHO.
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I think that's probably a bit extreme; it'd be more accurrate to say that it's not taught because the curriculum is drawn up in England and therefore Anglo-centric, even though it's then taught the UK over (and called British). I didn't have a problem with being taught English history; on the contrary I found and still find it fascinating - it was just a shame that Wales was glossed over so much even though I lived there.
 
VRWCAgent said:
That's not racial at all. "Racism" is way overused. I seriously doubt there is any racial difference between the fine folks in Wales when compared to the fine folks in the rest of the UK.

For example, I malign Kansans for anything and everything under the sun, but I guarantee you they are racially about the same as Missourians. Call it "Stateism" if you want, or some other "ism", but not racism.
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Racial stereotyping, national stereotyping, whatever- there's no real difference between the fine folks in any part of the world, we're all people - the point is it's still discrimination on grounds of origins, background, and therefore bad.
 
My friends have told me that there are no humans in Wales. That its all full of sheep like New Zealand. So I don't see how it matter if people make fun of sheep.
 
Well I guess the Welsh do get overlooked some. I guess people on the international stage dont have a strong enough idea of welshness to hang their many cultural exports on their own hook as seperate from the UK. Which is kind of a pity seeing as their are plenty of countries with far fewer cultural exports, even mid sized european nations*, who's people are recognised since everyone already has a mental image of those nations to asociate them with.

* For the sake of peace and harmony, Im not going there.

EDIT - OK to go there a little. Ramdom wiki trawl after posting.

Choosing a US state with aprox the right pop I plump for Minnesota. Few posters from Minnesota on the forums so I guess I should know about it but not the slightest idea. Northish, up by canada.

They gave us Bob Dylan and Prince. Outside of America who knew. With Dylan and Prince as a starting point I'll open a folder for 'em in my memory.
 
Figaro said:
Racial stereotyping, national stereotyping, whatever- there's no real difference between the fine folks in any part of the world, we're all people - the point is it's still discrimination on grounds of origins, background, and therefore bad.
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And also therefore not racism. It's not "whatever". You want to see racism? Look at my nation's past when we lynched people because of the color of their skin. Living four hours away from London and having a different accent hardly justifies charges of racism against folks living outside of Wales who make a sheep crack at Welsh expense.
 
Nah we never had any bearing on the world did we? Aside for 4 of the first 6 Presidents of America being Welsh, and Welsh being the nationality with the most signatures on the Declaration of Indepence, hell, even your country is named after a Welshman! (Ok that's debatable). Nah, we're just simpletons who love mining, rugby and singing! That's us!

P.S. I live in Cardiff, so I don't know if that can be really considered Welsh.
 
Its cause you never bother to fight back
 
I think that's probably a bit extreme; it'd be more accurate to say that it's not taught because the curriculum is drawn up in England and therefore Anglo-centric, even though it's then taught the UK over (and called British). I didn't have a problem with being taught English history; on the contrary I found and still find it fascinating - it was just a shame that Wales was glossed over so much even though I lived there.
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It may sound extreme but I really consider it to be quite truthful. I mean, the term "British" is supposed to be inclusive of native nationalities with the U.K, but as we've seen historically, it's used more or less synonymously with "English". The fact that Welsh students aren't taught Welsh, isn't necessarily just anglo-centric but rather, a continuing effort to prevent widespread nationalism in the Welsh (or at least was the case).

I do not doubt for a second that someone somewhere in the government fears that the Welsh upon learning of the MANY battles against the English, would rise up against "oppression by the English" and cast of cultural dominance by England.

If you think about it, there's at least some truth behind the logic that Welsh students are indoctrinated into "British" (=English) culture while phasing out their own Welsh culture and identity.

This is why Welsh language (primarily in the south) is so often attacked by English and Welsh alike, because it represents the strongest form of Welsh culture that is in many respects "alien" to them, and thus to be feared (natural human reaction).

Let me just say, that there is NOTHING wrong with learning English or Scottish history as a Welshman (I do enjoy American history), but the U.K needs to be more educationally inclusive of our native cultures than exclusive through one of them.

P.S. I live in Cardiff, so I don't know if that can be really considered Welsh.
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I'm from Newport. Dwi'n byw yn Casnewydd (no mutations for now ;) ) and I'm definitely Welsh. :) and 24 btw (Welsh learners/speakers aren't always old biddies)
 
I despised being forced to learn Welsh in school. Such a pointless waste of time... (IMO, obviously)
 
I dispised learning french if its any consolation...
 
ooh, burn...


[/ 16/f/O.C.]
 
We had a Welsh kid in our school (in England). We gave him the nickname 'Irish'. I feel bad about it now.
 
We called one guy "billy" so much even teachers started to use it..they didnt think to realise it was because he was a billy-no-mates.. :(
 
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