The 'Western' World

[Winner]

But you cant modernize without westernize

Yes, you can. This isn't EU3.

Westernization means that a previously un-Western society adopts enough of Western culture that it can be considered Western.

Japan and other developed Asian countries are definitely very modern, but clearly un-Western in their culture.

To be modern is to be Western.

No.

 

[Veles]

How's Russia not on the list of Western countries?

 

[Theige]

Yes, you can. This isn't EU3.

Westernization means that a previously un-Western society adopts enough of Western culture that it can be considered Western.

Japan and other developed Asian countries are definitely very modern, but clearly un-Western in their culture.

No.

Since when are we limiting the discussion to culture

The cultures of agreed upon western countries are pretty diverse already. German, Spanish, Scandinavian and British cultures are similar? Not to mention us Americans

 

[Veles]

...Are the Russians ethnically different from the Celts?

The overwhelming majority of Russians are Slavs, who, along with Celts, belong to the same R haplogroup, with the subdivison to "Slavic" R1a and "Celtic" R1b. So, from that point of view, the answer to your question could be "no".

 

[Quackers]

Why would Russia be a Western nation???

 

[Winner]

Since when are we limiting the discussion to culture

Because that's what "the West" is all about - the shared set of cultural traits, values, norms, etc. The West was the first part to modernize, but that doesn't mean that modernization = westernization.

 

[Veles]

Why would Russia be a Western nation???

Why on Earth would it be not? One reason?

 

[Winner]

Why on Earth would it be not? One reason?

It doesn't consider itself a Western nation.

Russia is... complicated. It's internally split between those who think Russia is or should be part of the European "family" and those who think that Russia is a category in itself that belongs to neither the West nor the East.

 

[Lillefix]

Yeah, Russia does seem to suffer from some kind of schizophrenia. In many ways it is a western country, but their leaders don't want it to be one. I don't know. Weird country.

 

[Theige]

Because that's what "the West" is all about - the shared set of cultural traits, values, norms, etc. The West was the first part to modernize, but that doesn't mean that modernization = westernization.

I guess you've never heard of Datsu-A Ron

 

[asbestos]

If we're going to include Greece for its service to Western culture, we may as well include Egypt and Iraq. And if religion and language are important aspects of culture, then many parts of modern day sub-Saharan Africa are also Western.

 

[Racsoviale]

Yes, you can. This isn't EU3.

That.....was the joke

 

[Veles]

It doesn't consider itself a Western nation.

Well, it really depends on the context.

Russians definately don't consider themselves Asian (unless they're actually Asian like Buryat, and even then it's questionable) And with all this huge immigration thingy going on, they tend to cling on European self-identification.

All people I know consider themself European rather than anything else. But within the category of West, Russia sure sees itself as something distinct. Dunno, its sheer awesomeness may have something to do with it

... Russia is a category in itself that belongs to neither the West nor the East.

That notion was popular when Russia actually had a considerable power to influence the way the world develops, i.e. in times of Russian Empire and Soviet Union. Currently it's capability in this area is very limited, to say the least.

In many ways it is a western country, but their leaders don't want it to be one. I don't know. Weird country.

Thankfully, the leader's opinion is just that - an opinion. And in no way it changes or influences the objective reality. (And, actually, Medvy, on numerous occasions, said, and I almost quote, that Russia "belongs to European family").

 

[Lillefix]

If we're going to include Greece for its service to Western culture, we may as well include Egypt and Iraq.

I have this history book about Europe. And in the beginning it says that if you are going understand Europe(or possibly "the West", I can't remember the wording), you have to begin with Mesopotamia. Anyway, I agree. It's not because we owe Greek civilization so much that we consider it a western nation.

Thankfully, the leader's opinion is just that - an opinion. And in now way it changes or influences the objective reality. (And actually Medvy, on numerous occasions, said, and I almost quote, that Russia "belongs to European family").

Yeah, I've notice he's quite western oriented. That's a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Winner]

Yeah, Russia does seem to suffer from some kind of schizophrenia. In many ways it is a western country, but their leaders don't want it to be one. I don't know. Weird country.

Yes. It's impossible to love it without hating it at the same time, and vice versa

(And, actually, Medvy, on numerous occasions, said, and I almost quote, that Russia "belongs to European family").

Too bad he isn't the one calling the shots in Russia. I mean this sincerely. So long as Putin and his regime is in charge, Russia will definitely not move closer to Europe. Sadly, Putin is still relatively young and healthy...

 

[Lone Wolf]

That's what Russia is. It can play non-Europe to Europe, and Europe to non-Europe. Russian nationalism is a mixture of European and Asian nationalistic features. Faced with the binary choice of "Europe or not", I guess most Russians will claim that they are European.

 

[luiz]

I certainly consider Russians to be Europeans (most of them anyway), but Westerners? That just seems wrong as for decades the West was defined precisely as the group of nations opposed to Russia...

 

[Lone Wolf]

Yeah, I don't think that they'll agree that Russia is a Western nation.

 

[red_elk]

All people I know consider themself European rather than anything else.

I think you're a bit confusing terms European and Western here.
USA and Canada are definitely Western, but not European.
Russia can be European (rather Eurasian), but not Western.

 

[Veles]

Fair enough, everybody. Perhaps I too strongly identify being Western with being European.