The 'Western' World

[Theige]

I think your explanation implies that modernization is inherently Western.

I'm not implying it I'm saying it flat out

 

[WWTVICTOR]

Well for Japan, it's stated policy was "leaving Asia" and "joining the west" going back to the 1880s.

They studied the political, economic and military systems of the west, chose the ones they most wanted to emulate, and imported thousands of "foreign experts" to help with the reforms.

I have heard that Japan is trying to promote 'leaving Europe and joining Asia' in order to increase the influence and cooperation with Asian countries, with the purpose to lead them out of the economic decades.

 

[Theige]

I have heard that Japan is trying to promote 'leaving Europe and joining Asia' in order to increase the influence and cooperation with Asian countries, with the purpose to lead them out of the economic decades.

I apologize, but I don't believe I can make enough sense out of this post to make an appropriate response.

 

[Tee Kay]

I believe that was the Party Line during the Second World War, when Japan was already arguably a modern nationstate and at war with most of The West. Of course, Japanese "leadership" took more of the form of "slave mastership".

 

[Masada]

Ahhhhhhhhhh Great East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. Part propaganda move, part genuine belief that European colonialism was a Bad Thing. As part of the whole idea the Japanese gave Burma, the Philippines and India independence, promised Thailand continued independence and made moves to give Indochina, Indonesia and Malaysia eventual independence. In the case of Indonesia it grabbed its own independence, but with the connivance of some of Admiral Maeda who seems to have believed in the whole Asia for the Asians thing. It also gave us some ossim pictures like this one:

With left to right:
Hideki Tojo, Prime Minister of Japan
Zhang Jinghui, Prime Minister of Manchukuo
Wang Jingwei, President of the Nationalist Government of Republic of China in Nanjing
Ba Maw, Head of State, State of Burma
Subhas Chandra Bose, Head of State of Provisional Government of Free India (Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind)
José P. Laurel, President of the Second Philippine Republic
Prince Wan Waithayakon, envoy from the Kingdom of Thailand

 

[Tee Kay]

The order's wrong.

From left to right: Ba Maw, Zhang, Wang, Tojo, Prince Wan, Laurel, Bose; I think.

Bose is one ugly man.

 

[Masada]

Ouch. I should have checked that.

 

[WWTVICTOR]

Ahhhhhhhhhh Great East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. Part propaganda move, part genuine belief that European colonialism was a Bad Thing. As part of the whole idea the Japanese gave Burma, the Philippines and India independence, promised Thailand continued independence and made moves to give Indochina, Indonesia and Malaysia eventual independence. In the case of Indonesia it grabbed its own independence, but with the connivance of some of Admiral Maeda who seems to have believed in the whole Asia for the Asians thing. It also gave us some ossim pictures like this one:

With left to right:
Hideki Tojo, Prime Minister of Japan
Zhang Jinghui, Prime Minister of Manchukuo
Wang Jingwei, President of the Nationalist Government of Republic of China in Nanjing
Ba Maw, Head of State, State of Burma
Subhas Chandra Bose, Head of State of Provisional Government of Free India (Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind)
José P. Laurel, President of the Second Philippine Republic
Prince Wan Waithayakon, envoy from the Kingdom of Thailand

The Thai Representative was the only independent representative attended this conference, that's why some people doubted that should they count Thailand as an axis power

 

[Tee Kay]

The Thai Representative was the only independent representative attended this conference, that's why some people doubted that should they count Thailand as an axis power

For all intent and purposes, one can certainly count it as one of the Axis Powers, even a reluctant and mildly treacherous one.

Thailand's situation is a bit like Denmark's, with the crucial difference that Thailand actually signed a formal alliance with an Axis Power.

 

[Leoreth]

The order's wrong.

From left to right: Ba Maw, Zhang, Wang, Tojo, Prince Wan, Laurel, Bose; I think.

Bose is one ugly man.

And I was already wondering how the Japanese would allow their own head of government not being in the center.

 

[Tee Kay]

And not have the most medals pinned on his suit.

 

[Masada]

The Thai Representative was the only independent representative attended this conference, that's why some people doubted that should they count Thailand as an axis power

What makes someone or something independent?

 

[WWTVICTOR]

What makes someone or something independent?

Not a protectorate, puppet state, or automatic resource production machine under the glory leadership of the Empire of Japan in the Great East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

Or simply, not dependent.

 

[Masada]

Good job Japan for increasing the number of independent states in Asia I suppose?

The 100th Anniversary of the Sinhai Revolution, the First Asian Democratic Revolution!

Also, no.

 

[Tee Kay]

Not a protectorate, puppet state, or automatic resource production machine under the glory leadership of the Empire of Japan in the Great East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

Or simply, not dependent.

Which doesn't describe Thailand under Japanese occupation.

 

[Masada]

Nor Indonesia. Or Burma for a fair part of the war.

 

[WWTVICTOR]

Which doesn't describe Thailand under Japanese occupation.

The Japanese troops had invaded Thailand, but they signed a mutual alliance pact with each other and Thailand remanined independence.

The situation is like present Bhutan and India today. Although Bhutan is independent, India have inflenece over her foriegn policy and some other affairs.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_in_World_War_II

Good job Japan for increasing the number of independent states in Asia I suppose?

Napoleonic Wars did the opposite thing too, but I don't think this (Japanese occupation) is a good job, unless you are a Japanese fanatics...

Also, no.

Please refer to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Philippine_Republic

The First Philippine Republic was not recognized by United States and Spain, and Philippines was conquered and colonized by American very soon.

 

[Tee Kay]

The Japanese troops had invaded Thailand, but they signed a mutual alliance pact with each other and Thailand remanined independence.

The situation is like present Bhutan and India today. Although Bhutan is independent, India have inflenece over her foriegn policy and some other affairs.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_in_World_War_II

India doesn't have a large occupying army in Bhutan making sure that the Bhutanese behaves. India doesn't commandeer Bhutan's entire transport network. India doesn't force Bhutan to change its laws in the manner that Japan did for Thailand.

As I said earlier, the Occupation of Thailand was very similar to the first years of the Occupation of Denmark. In both countries, the government surrendered after fighting the invader for a few hours. Both countries retained their system of government, but a large occupying army keeps them in line.

The First Philippine Republic was not recognized by United States and Spain, and Philippines was conquered and colonized by American very soon.

Irrelevant. And anyway, China became a military dictatorship less than a year after the Xinhai Revolution.

 

[Winner]

You know, guys, there is a history forum here...

 

[WWTVICTOR]

You know, guys, there is a history forum here...

Okay fellow, this is the last post from me on this issue

India doesn't have a large occupying army in Bhutan making sure that the Bhutanese behaves. India doesn't commandeer Bhutan's entire transport network. India doesn't force Bhutan to change its laws in the manner that Japan did for Thailand.

Yes, I meant that this is similar and I made an example, I focuses on the Thailand issues but not Bhutan's one, you can also popose a similar situation to explain if you can [the temperature is being hoter here in this thread]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan–India_relations

Irrelevant. And anyway, China became a military dictatorship less than a year after the Xinhai Revolution.

-(1)At least in any stances you cannot deny that there is no Republc of China.
-(2)Of couse I know, they've even declared a monarchy, Empire of China since the year of 1915.

The revolution did not immediately result in a republican government; instead, it set up a weak provisional central government over a politically fragmented country. Reactionaries briefly and abortively restored the monarchy twice, leading to a period of military rule. Though the revolution concluded on February 12, 1912, when the Republic of China formally replaced the Qing Dynasty, internal conflict persisted. The nation endured a failed Second Revolution, a Warlord Era and the Chinese Civil War before the Communists took control on October 1, 1949.

As I said earlier, the Occupation of Thailand was very similar to the first years of the Occupation of Denmark. In both countries, the government surrendered after fighting the invader for a few hours. Both countries retained their system of government, but a large occupying army keeps them in line.

I am totally agree with this.



I shall quit or it will become a part of Never Ending Stories, not even History forums