The 'Western' World

[Lillefix]

I certainly consider Russians to be Europeans (most of them anyway), but Westerners? That just seems wrong as for decades the West was defined precisely as the group of nations opposed to Russia...

That was just he cold war. At the time, the term "the West" was defined by politics. When we talk about the West today it's in terms of culture. I said it earlier, and I'll happily repeat it. It's just two different things that have the same name. Where Russia is, I don't know. But the cold war is in my opinion irrelevant, for whether or not your culture is western.

 

[Winner]

That was just he cold war. At the time, the term "the West" was defined by politics. When we talk about the West today it's in terms of culture. I said it earlier, and I'll happily repeat it. It's just two different things that have the same name.

Well, the politics is still there. Russia seems to like posing as being "against the West" - just watch Russia Today, it's basically all about how the West is decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, in decline, etc. etc. etc., while in Russia everyone is happy and things are moving in the right direction.

So long as Russia keeps thinking like this, it can obviously not be considered as a part of the West. If, on the other hand, it became fully democratic and its foreign policy changed from almost 100% opposition to any Western initiative to at least moderate support, there would be a strong case for calling it a part of the West.

 

[Lillefix]

I still not agree. You seem to be of the opinion that the west is some kind of coalition or alliance. If Germany and Italy used anti western rhetorics during the second world war, should their culture at that time not be considered western? When I think about the West, I think of countries that the last couple of centuries have to an extent shared the same trends. You know, enlightenment, the different literary trends, architectural trends, clothing trends and so on.

 

[red_elk]

just watch Russia Today, it's basically all about how the West is decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, in decline, etc. etc. etc., while in Russia everyone is happy and things are moving in the right direction.

RT is the second most popular foreign TV news channel in the USA (after BBC)
What you described is Soviet "Pravda" of 1970-s.

 

[Veles]

... just watch Russia Today, it's basically all about how the West is decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, in decline, etc. etc. etc.,

RT is a propaganda channel and rarely regarded here as anything else than that. Besides, it's not even in the standart set of free TV channels, and not many people bother to subscribe to satellite channels.

And that said, West, just like Russia, sure has its share of decadence, corruption, hypocricy and decline. And some of Western channels are unusually hostile towards Russia, like Guardian for example.

 

[Winner]

RT is the second most popular foreign TV news channel in the USA (after BBC)
What you described is Soviet "Pravda" of 1970-s.

No, I described RT. I watch it for fun, sometimes, so I know what I am talking about.

 

[Winner]

And some of Western channels are unusually hostile towards Russia, like Guardian for example.

That tends to happen when they're dealing with a regime that murders independent journalists, dissidents (even abroad, with polonium), and which continues beating up totally peaceful protesters for the crime of assembling to voice their opinion, even if it's not directly critical of the regime. Liberal left-wing press usually doesn't like this very much.

I still not agree. You seem to be of the opinion that the west is some kind of coalition or alliance. If Germany and Italy used anti western rhetorics during the second world war, should their culture at that time not be considered western? When I think about the West, I think of countries that the last couple of centuries have to an extent shared the same trends. You know, enlightenment, the different literary trends, architectural trends, clothing trends and so on.

But I agree with you. My point is that since the Russians are so vocally anti-Western (even though culturally very close to the West, more than they're willing to admit), it is still hard for people to consider them a part of the West.

 

[red_elk]

No, I described RT. I watch it for fun, sometimes, so I know what I am talking about.

I guess those Americans who like to watch Russian propaganda about "decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, and declining" West are masochists then.

 

[Artifis]

It goes from up to down

Spoiler :

Armenian, Icelandic, Palestinian, Italian, Berber, Turkish

To be honest the differences can be seen, if subtly. I didn't get it all correct, but I could tell when someone didn't appear to be "white" white.

 

[Winner]

I guess those Americans who like to watch Russian propaganda about "decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, and declining" West are masochists then.

They probably watch it for fun, just like I do. Maybe some hardcore anti-government leftwingers may even believe what it says.

Recently a report about how Hungary's democracy is being threatened by Fidesz government cracked me up - I mean, there may even be some truth in it, but if it comes from a Russian news channel it's just hilarious

 

[Leoreth]

just watch Russia Today, it's basically all about how the West is decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, in decline, etc. etc. etc.

Funny because these are probably the first adjectives that would come to my mind to describe Russia

I guess those Americans who like to watch Russian propaganda about "decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, and declining" West are masochists then.

Or have a bad judgement? Most people can't tell the difference between honest journalism and blatant propaganda.

 

[red_elk]

They probably watch it for fun, just like I do. Maybe some hardcore anti-government leftwingers may even believe what it says.

Second most popular foreign news channel.
Talking about decadent, corrupt and declining West?
Being watched only for fun or by hardcore leftwingers?
Interesting theory, may be you can give examples of funny "Pravda-style" headlines for a few last days?

Or have a bad judgement? Most people can't tell the difference between honest journalism and blatant propaganda.

The channel is of course pro-Russian. I doubt though it has so blatant anti-Western propaganda as Winner said, and still can be so much popular in the USA.

 

[classical_hero]

I guess those Americans who like to watch Russian propaganda about "decadent, corrupt, hypocritical, and declining" West are masochists then.

Why do people watch Fox News?

 

[kochman]

The Western World is simply the portion of the world that is or spawned primarily into "civilization" via Europa... it's not confusing.

I've always considered S. & C. America a part of it too...

The East would be the China/Japan sphere...

 

[red_elk]

Why do people watch Fox News?

In America? I guess it has own conservative audience, and it's not talking about corrupt and decadent West (correct me if I'm wrong). In Russia Fox News is not popular.

 

[Tahuti]

They probably watch it for fun, just like I do. Maybe some hardcore anti-government leftwingers may even believe what it says.

Don't forget HC Libertarians: Ron Paul is quite often seen on RT from what I know.

 

[jtb1127]

Russia is undeniably European.

 

[Theige]

The channel is of course pro-Russian. I doubt though it has so blatant anti-Western propaganda as Winner said, and still can be so much popular in the USA.

It isn't popular in the U.S.

The BBC isn't very popular, either.

 

[Tycho]

Maybe something along the lines of "Pan-Euro & American Cultural Spheres"? They have after all long been allied with America and Europe, share a large cultural background with each other, and have been founded by European and American settlers. Or maybe something else along those same lines.

How about "The White World"?

Makes sense as most of these countrie's populations are made up of Caucasian descendents of European settlers.

 

[Singularity]

Latin America has a similiar position to Russia. They have a lot of common traits with the "western world", but they exist in a different climate of culture, politics, economy and human rights from the industrial revolution and up to present time.

Bolshevik's and Latin American revolutions in the last century firmly put them out of the company of the rest of the western world. I guess you could also view it from a system of accepting market economy and parliamentarism for an extended duration over the last 150 years.