The Wonder Plan

Originally posted by Grandmaster
I agree with Shaitan. Its our Manifest Destiny to subdue the barbarian Aztecs and any other poor backwards nation that we discover, so that we can bring peace and civilization to the world. If that means spilling the blood of these barbarians, so be it, but I think that is the best route. Therefore, I'd say GL (to keep us up-to-date with military technology) and HE (to increase the strength of our armies, the fists of our nation.) Hail Shaitan! no.... wait...... nevermind......
Click to expand...

Both Wonders as well as a military would be a dream. However, I'm not sure if it is possible to get all 3 let alone 2. If we focus on one, I think we have the best chance to achieve it on our difficulty level. My hope is to pick a course, stick with it, and be successful at that.
 
Well then I'd have to say a strong military and the GL. The HE would be an added bonus if we can get to it, but I think that with our Militaristic abilities we should have no trouble getting leaders on our own. Plus, if we don't get the library and fall behind in techs, the HE won't do us much good because no matter how liekly you are to get Leaders from a victory, trying to fight of anything above a Knight with pikeman is pretty damned difficult.
 
I'm still advocating the HE as our primary wonder building focus, since doing so will mean we are making the most of our Civ's natural strengths rather than diluting them with aspirations of builderhood - a course of action which will serve to weaken our position versus the Emperor level AI.
I've said this before, and I'm saying it again: the best way to get wonders is through warmongering and the great leaders it produces. The second best way is to capture them, and actually spending shields on the things trails a poor third. The best way to get Great Leaders is to build the HE, therefore building the HE means more wonders in the long term. If we've been beaten to the wonders we want at any given time, we can use Great Leaders to form armies to wrest them from our foes.
On the other hand, the Great Library merely allows us to (almost) keep up with the AI in tech terms until halfway through the Medieval era or indeed slightly less than halfway, given the speed with which the AI heads for Education. Additionally, via intelligent and persistent warmongering, we can come very close to reproducing the effects of the Great Library via lucrative one-sided peace negotiations.
Also, we should consider the relative costs of the two wonders: the HE requires only 200 shields to the Great Library's 400. That's half the cost and thus twice the speed, with no risk of being beaten to the punch and finding we've wasted 30 or so turns worth of production in the chosen city.

If after reading this any citizen still believes there is a compelling reason for us to build the Great Library instead of the Heroic Epic, I respectfully request that he or she step forward and post it here. I myself can think of none.
 
Point taken, Eklektikos. I would suggest allowing another civ (preferably one near us) build GL and then conquer the city its in, but I now remember that the AI doesn't put the GL as a priority. Thus I have to submit to your logic: enhance our advantage with the HE, then use the added Leaders to build the GL. Plus, we should remember, w/o an AI priority on it, the GL should be around long enough for us to get a Leader and rush it (if we fight some early wars.) Point conceeded.
 
I think the Great Library should be the main antiquity wonder. Hopefully, the Aztecs, or anyone else nearby builds the pyramids so we can take it. ;) That would free up room for archers and swordsmen... We could use a wonder to prebuild the GL (preferably, a new one) - if not, then a palace prebuild.
 
Interesting debate. As an outsider I'd have to reccommend the first leader whenever it comes has to become an army. Even if you don't get it till the middle ages the extra GLs will make up for any wonder you miss.
 
I'm siding with Eklektikos and bbaws here. Great Leaders can be very hard to get sometimes. We should use them to our best advantage. With a good strategy applied to our elites, we should obtain a Great Leader, turn that into an army, get a single victory, and build the Heroic Epic. By enhancing our chances of getting more Great Leaders, we will be enhancing our chances of getting more Great Wonders, including the Great Library. And that would be Great! :)
 
We really shouldn't rely on the HE. First of all, our first offensive expedition would have to be pretty darn succesful. After that, the leader needs to make his way home safely, and wait for three units to be stuck in his army. After that, the army would have to go all the way back, by which time the war will be over, and the AI's would have units superior to those of the army!

The HE is a good idea, but one we shouldn't rely on.
 
I beleve we should focus our attention to the Great Wonders :). We can always build Small wonders anytime (Provided we get the tech or specal conditions for them ;) )
 
I think the main point here is that several other civs have already started the pyramids. Without a GL the only hope of getting free granaries is conquest. If you are sucking hind tit you have to revise your aims. War and GLs plural is the quickest catchup. The plurality arrives with HE.
 
Admittedly if you go down the HE route your Civ just got hijacked by the Hawks. As I said it's a very interesting debate, but I don't vote.
 
Hawks are apt to get out of hand. As I say vaguely interested observer. A press corps perhaps?
Not being targetted by the doves.
yet
 
I say go for the pyramids, IF we get a great leader. mass culrure and free graneries (that don't have to be produced).
-Lord Master Zarn of the Jedi Knights.
 
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