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[BTS] The Worst Leader and Civilization

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Hesha, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,989
    Location:
    Finland
    Easily top 50 leader for me too. ;)
     
    lymond and krikav like this.
  2. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    403
    Either way - I'd just copy over your responses to the poll in that case. Just to help me out, if possible at all, do break your ties!
     
  3. Anysense

    Anysense King

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
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    784
    I forgot! UU is irrelevant but tech and traits are fine. I need to try him in one of my space games. I think he will do well on marathon.
     
    krikav likes this.
  4. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    431
    I would say certainly not. Let's remember, this game was expected to be played with goody huts. Scout starts are certainly better than warrior starts if there are goody huts. Starting with hunting tech was decent, it's turning off goody huts that made it hot garbage.
    And for the record, I still prefer scout starts to warrior starts. It's just no longer enough of an adv to save hunting from being a weak starter. My opening phase:
    1. I want to find my neighbor AIs ASAP for the tech reduction (or to confirm that I'm isolated). Ideally by t5 so I haven't spent beakers and barbs aren't a threat.
    2. Then I want to determine where my 2nd city will be since its distance and resources will determine my immediate tech path and build order.
    3. Fog bust.

    1. Scouts get through phase 1 quicker / more consistently before t5.
    2. Phase 2 is risky. If my first unit gets hurt by a barb it will be delayed. If it gets killed by a barb it will be significantly delayed and the barb presence will start snowballing. This is the first big risk for a game beginning to go awry. Scouts let me avoid this risk because I can be patient and move them one space per turn while retaining a flight square. Only Panthers are a threat to a scout here, and animals don't last very long.
    3. Typically you have some region that's jungled/forested and regions that are more open. Warriors can be a little brave moving through forest/jungle b.c of defense penalties. But scouts are better for the open regions and avoiding combat altogether. Since you often get both of these regions, but are only building warriors, it's nice to have that initial scout deal with the open region.

    Worker steal is a valid option that comes with its own pros and cons and of course risk. In my own games between thinking it's worth the complication and actually executing the steal, I perform a worker steal in a minority of starts. As a result, I value the consistency of scouts more than the option of worker stealing with my starting unit.
     
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  5. Anysense

    Anysense King

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
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    Nice to see someone arguing scouts' case, I thought I was the only one who saw any value in them - other than hut hunting that is. This is all fine when you play a typicall normal speed game with barbs and not aggressive AI. In HoF, however, no worker stolen before you could build one = next map. Of course, priorities depend on many factors. In AP games huts are essential. But workers are just as essential as free techs, so to beat those records you need ridiculous amount of luck, like getting Mysticism from one hut, BW from another and then stealing a worker on t10. In bigger games, where you play further than just building the Apostolic Palace, lucky huts become less decisive but several early free workers are the cornerstone of a good game.
     

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