Well, if we are talking about "theology" we have to consider all possible definitions of God, not just the traditional Christian one (which not all Christians use, anyways).
He may be. In which case I question the criteria. I am willing to discard "omnipotent" as an attribute of God because it's ill-defined and leads to stupid questions and quasi-contradictions. (Can God make a triangle with four sides? Can God make a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?) More useful, IMO, is the description of God as Almighty - in that he has literally all might, all authority.I guess he is referring to the (as I understand it) generally accepted theological view that the Christian god has three fundamental characteristics that are a necessary, definitional part of being God, i.e. that an entity can't be God unless it meets these criteria:
- omniscient
- omnipotent
- beneficient.
Once you remove the logic-transcending omnipotence in favor of ultimate power, the PoE seems to collapse quite simply - a benevolent, all-powerful God is in the process of removing evil, and He isn't finished yet.There are a raft of philiosophical issues that then arise from reconciling this definition with what we see in the real world, the most problematic being the 'problem of evil' (i.e. how come a benevolent, all-knowing and all-powerful God allows evil to exist?) which is only solved in Christian theology through the doctrine of the Fall and Original Sin.
Once you remove the logic-transcending omnipotence in favor of ultimate power, the PoE seems to collapse quite simply - a benevolent, all-powerful God is in the process of removing evil, and He isn't finished yet.
I'm not sure if I understand your argument. Doesn't this apply anyway - that either God isn't the sole Creator, or else God created evil?But that denies another attribute of God, that He/It is the [one and only] Creator. If God is the Creator, He/It must have created the evil that He/It is busily removing, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
But that denies another attribute of God, that He/It is the [one and only] Creator. If God is the Creator, He/It must have created the evil that He/It is busily removing, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
How can an holy God have death and suffering as part of his plan?
If God did use Evolution, then he is certainly not Holy, since he made death as an intricate part of this world and since the Bible says "The Wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23) According to the Bible Death is a result of sin, so that means that God created sin.
Also the Bible clearly states that God said that what he had done was very good, so for him to say that death is very good, then something must be wrong with him.
OF course this would be hypocritical of God for being angry at anyone who sins if he allowed sin and death to be a natural part of living on this planet.
3. It makes Jesus a liar.
I don't see how, when this is explicitly the case in Judaism...According to the Bible Death is a result of sin, so that means that God created sin.
Also the Bible clearly states that God said that what he had done was very good, so for him to say that death is very good, then something must be wrong with him.
In which case I question the criteria. I am willing to discard "omnipotent" as an attribute of God because it's ill-defined and leads to stupid questions and quasi-contradictions. (Can God make a triangle with four sides? Can God make a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?)
Once you remove the logic-transcending omnipotence in favor of ultimate power, the PoE seems to collapse quite simply - a benevolent, all-powerful God is in the process of removing evil, and He isn't finished yet.
Doesn't this apply anyway - that either God isn't the sole Creator, or else God created evil?
BUTBUT GOD TRANSCENDS LOJIC shift-eleventy-one limx->0 (sin x)/x Int_1_e 1/x dx -(e^ipi).Omnipotence just means God can create any world he wants that is logically feasible.
a) Can a plant or an animal sin? Yet they can die.If God did use Evolution, then he is certainly not Holy, since he made death as an intricate part of this world and since the Bible says "The Wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23) According to the Bible Death is a result of sin, so that means that God created sin.
a) Evolution is not random.2. It makes God as someone who does not care. This is here since if God just used a random process to get us where we are right now.
Or it could mean when God created the world, he put the seeds that will one day create man after millions of year of Evolution.3. It makes Jesus a liar. He clearly states that Man was from the Beginning of creation, meaning that man was around when all the other now extinct animal were around. If Jesus is God and that is what the Bible says, then why did he not just say that after millions of years of change man finally came into being. But Jesus never said that so since he did not say that then he must be lying if Evolution is true.
The question "Could God create a triangle with 4 sides" is a stupid one anyway, because triangle is just a convention, a name we decided to give to an object with 3 sides. we could have as easily named that a square, and name the figure with 4 sides a triangle.God couldn't create a square-triangle world,
OR you can say that God is not omnipotent by this definition.
In the last case, of course, you have constructed a copout-deity, one with no relation or resemblance to anything anybody actually worships - a deity constructed only to escape a thorny theological problem.
If you take that as a given then this discussion is pointless; of course, that defeats the purpose of the whole thread.
Eran said:The idea that God must of necessity be omnipotent to be God is actually completely nonsensical. Lots of people have worshipped a non-omnipotent God - perhaps most - and don't do it just to "esapce a thorny theological problem'. It's not a copout.
Actually, now that I re-read your post, you aren't saying that God can't be omnipotent, only that such a being is not worthy of worship. Although that doesn't make any more sense to me either.