There is no Death tax

[Stapel]

Why should they not? You spend your entire life working hard, in order to provide for your family. It is the governments way of saying that you can be the provider in life, but not in death.'

As for the 'better start in life' this applies to everyone.

Well, the point is: can you (alive or dead) donate money to your children, without your kids being taxed. If you hire your son or daughter into your own company, he or she should pay tax. If you hire your son or daughter to do basically nothing (you just give them money), they still have to pay tax.

If you donate money to your kids a week before you die, they still have to pay tax. Should that change if you actually are dead?

And: should there be different taxation rules when the one who pays you is a parent?
Maybe an exception is fair, when the kids are still dependent on daddy's monye?

Just soem thoughts, before we jump to conclusions.

 

[ainwood]

Did you read my post?

Yes?

Maybe I missed your point. I was simply responding to Hitro (although looks like I missed his point too). Besides - In NZ it is actually Death DUTY. Inheritances are not treated as income, so the person doesn't pay this as income tax either.

Ouch! Pseudo-psychology! Perfect strategy for the privileged, patologizing everybody who out of more egalitarian convictions, dares to question their priviliges. Needless to say, this sort of debate-technique says more about those who uses such terms, than it does about those "diagnozed".

Well firstly, I grew-up in a drought-prone farming region, where my father worked probably 70 hours a week, my mother worked as well so that we could afford to live, and my siblings and I did our bit as well. Hardly 'privileged', certainly by New Zealand standards.

Secondly, the context of my response was to rebut:

To prevent the Hilton sisters from being born to never have to work a day.

I don't even know what 'patologizing' means (assume you mean something along the lines of 'mocking'?), but to me this suggestion screamed of looking to punish someone simply because they are rich. Ie - an emotive argument rather than one based on fairness or logic.

Yes, at least. But that is two different cathegories, which should be dealt with accordingly different. There is a difference between what you have gained as a fruit of your labour (the blue-collars) and what you gained as the fruit of many other people's labour (e.g the Hiltons). That is the difference between possession and private property. And while the first should be inheritable, the second should not.

Actually, the Hilton empire is the fruit of the Hilton's labour. If he built it up by taking risks and opportunities, why should he be punished? Simply because he doesn't do manual labour? His empire provides jobs for 1000's, pays a fortune in taxes. What's the problem with that? Should anybody who is rich be treated differently from other people just because they are not blue collar workers? In short - they are exactly the same.

And with that I am out of this thread, I see absolutely no point in discussing this any further on the premises presented here.

Well, that's your choice. <shrug>

 

[ainwood]

Well, the point is: can you (alive or dead) donate money to your children, without your kids being taxed. If you hire your son or daughter into your own company, he or she should pay tax. If you hire your son or daughter to do basically nothing (you just give them money), they still have to pay tax.

If you donate money to your kids a week before you die, they still have to pay tax. Should that change if you actually are dead?

And: should there be different taxation rules when the one who pays you is a parent?
Maybe an exception is fair, when the kids are still dependent on daddy's monye?

Just soem thoughts, before we jump to conclusions.

Well, I guess this is where tax law differs from country to country. In NZ, there are no inheritance taxes nor gift duties. In all cases it doesn't matter - the money can be given before death or after death with no tax to pay. Presumably this is because when you earn money you are taxed, when you earn interest on it, that interest is also taxed. So why get taxed again when you pass it on to someone else?

 

[vonork]

So why get taxed again when you pass it on to someone else?

Well, becouse I hire you, but don't pay you any salary, I GIVE you money. No tax

Se a problem with that?

 

[ainwood]

Well, becouse I hire you, but don't pay you any salary, I GIVE you money. No tax

Se a problem with that?

In NZ, there is a test to see if anyone is actually an employee. You simply cannot call someone an employee and 'give' them money without either them paying income tax, or witholding tax (eg. people employed 'directly' that aren't employees).

In the case you specify, where does the money that you 'give' me come from? Is it from your own personal salary?

 

[Stapel]

Well, I guess this is where tax law differs from country to country. In NZ, there are no inheritance taxes nor gift duties. In all cases it doesn't matter - the money can be given before death or after death with no tax to pay. Presumably this is because when you earn money you are taxed, when you earn interest on it, that interest is also taxed. So why get taxed again when you pass it on to someone else?

I basically agree with such a system.
To whom can you donate gifts? Children? Other relatives? Or also to whomever you want?

If so, employers might ask their employees to work for free, and donate them a gift afterwards......

 

[Stapel]

In NZ, there is a test to see if anyone is actually an employee. You simply cannot call someone an employee and 'give' them money without either them paying income tax, or witholding tax (eg. people employed 'directly' that aren't employees).

In the case you specify, where does the money that you 'give' me come from? Is it from your own personal salary?

Sorry, fot the post above .

But this does leave options for tax avoiding games.

Bonuses can be payed as gifts....

 

[ainwood]

If so, employers might ask their employees to work for free, and donate them a gift afterwards......

Its written into the legislation that you can only gift up to $NZ 27,000 / annum, and also you can't 'gift' to employees (well you can, but that's taxed differently -> can't avoid it by this means anyway).