They're All Barbarians.

Its worth considering that GK was in WHEOORN at the start of my set. In my limited experience a player can't bribe an AI in WHEOORN to go to war, I'd be surprised if another AI could. This is the main reason I don't think GK was bribed by Qin. On the other hand its surprising that GK didn't start off with a proper SOD.

Whchever it was I'm certainly not proposing we expand into Siberia. I'm proposing we have a go at annihilating Karakorum and whichever city he has in Manchuria (Turfan or Beshbalik) to slow GK down (and maybe extort HbR in the process). I agree with RRRaskolnikov that GK will keep attacking us at the most inopportune times until he's destroyed or vassalised.

edit: nocho's lack of skill is similar to my pessimism: pure affectation.
 
Its worth considering that GK was in WHEOORN at the start of my set. In my limited experience a player can't bribe an AI in WHEOORN to go to war, I'd be surprised if another AI could. This is the main reason I don't think GK was bribed by Qin. On the other hand its surprising that GK didn't start off with a proper SOD.

Whchever it was I'm certainly not proposing we expand into Siberia. I'm proposing we have a go at annihilating Karakorum and whichever city he has in Manchuria (Turfan or Beshbalik) to slow GK down (and maybe extort HbR in the process). I agree with RRRaskolnikov that GK will keep attacking us at the most inopportune times until he's destroyed or vassalised.

edit: nocho's lack of skill is similar to my pessimism: pure affectation.
I do not agree that GK will attack us as much as that
Code:
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			<iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>120</iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>
			<iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>90</iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>
			<iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>0</iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>
			<iLimitedWarRand>40</iLimitedWarRand>
			<iLimitedWarPowerRatio>130</iLimitedWarPowerRatio>
			<iDogpileWarRand>50</iDogpileWarRand>
Ok, he is a little bit loony, but he is not Monty, for heavens sake :p And we have far more power than him...

In spite of that I like the idea of extorting HBR of GK ;) that alone might make the whole war worthwhile ...
 
Okay, so the army will move NW to raze the Mongol capital and then NEish and raze whatever city is there. About then we can hopefully extort something valueable from the half-bearded barb. About that time our peace with Qin also expires so will move the army towards Hangzhou and raze that one, probably along with the barbarian barb city east of it.

I assume we want to resettle somewhere near the Mongol cap? Same thing with Hangzhou/Cuman, will try to get a settler for the tile that's marked.

Most cities are right now on infra, which is fine, but I feel the army should be rebuffed, especially given our move into SE Asia. We have no units really available there right now. We'll obviously need them to dislodge the other Chinese holdings, as well as for building up something decent for Asoka's LBs (no way we'll get to him before he has LBs). So most cities will continue with military builds, apart from very basic infra in the newer dwellings (granary, monument).

We'll tech our way through CS and continue machinery for our beloved UU. Should I revolt to bureau immediately? We'll get a great person in 7 turns, we could launch a GA, though if GS an academy in Satsuma makes sense. Not sure what to do with a GM. Can he bulb something? (ok checked, paper/monarchy/CS/guilds of the techs nearby) I suppose a trade mission is off limits. And settling is maybe a bit meh.

We have a GG. What shall we do with the guy? Other super-medic or maybe settle in Nara? IIRC RRR envisioned it as a future hammer monster so could one day be the HE city.

And okay, maybe I'm not that unskillfull executing my plans. My plans are usually probably just plain awful. ;)
 
And here we go again nocho* .... DO we really want bureau ? :D Our cap is nice and such, but we have 10 cities :/

Our army needs a buff, surely. But we could wait to get HBR for that , maybe ... and get phants . Dunno.

Do we really want to settle near Karakorum ? The land is cow dung in there. The city marked in game is ok, though

The GG ... we don't actually need another medic for the time being, so maybe settling is for the best. If Nara goes to the hammer side ( it can definitely go that way ), it is a good idea to settle there.

*for those who don't know, nocho and I have a already long standing tradition of disagreeing on the use of Bureau in our common SGs :D
 
Ha, we can wait for Monarchy for the double switch. :p Dunno, I've yet to see a (normal) game where bureau is demonstrably worse than the default civic in that department, given the stage of development we're in... The anarchy makes me doubt though. If I'd have the time (and frankly, the interest) I'd still like to try the start of the Incan game (RR10) but with the bureau switch. Can't really believe it would be worse. But then again, rolo's word is pretty mighty of course. :D

The army buff could be just catapults for now.

Doesn't Karakorum have like some sheep and horses and isn't it at least quite decent production wise? It's mainly to keep GK from resettling it. I mean, why bother in the first place and lose some units in the area if we just let him resettle anyway.
 
Karakorum is pants. Once it gets to pop10 it runs out of food completely. Reasons to stomp it:
i) Its a barbarian hovel.
ii) Capturing cities is the best way to get GK to accept peace (at a profit).
iii) Razing it and pillaging the tiles will slow GK down.
iv) Its a barbarian hovel.
 
Karakorum is pants. Once it gets to pop10 it runs out of food completely.
Also with communist windmills and bio plain farms?

Spoiler Courtesy RPG by MadScientist :
MSA0004.jpg

Meanwhile I'd think that it should be a good enough place to just perma-build military as it's good on hammers. It'll keep GK from resettling it and saves us the hassle of razing the same place twice. I'd resettle it NE to get both sheep, but if roster is against it will refrain from it ofc.
 
And so the epic tale of the keepers of civilization in their quest to rid the world of barbarism continues with the assault on the lowlife tribesmen that call themselves the Mongols. The army takes the luxury of stopping for a minute to bombard city defenses but then enters the city before burning it down.

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0335.jpg


And onward they march and make short work of Beshbalik.

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0336.jpg


Genghis sees the futility of it all and accedes to our reasonable proposal.

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0338.jpg


As rolo mentioned the nation rejoices at the thought of war elephants, only to find out we do not have ivory. :rolleyes:

In a fine display of unilateral decision making, Shimonseiki is founded near the ruins of Karakorum. 2 sheep and visions of windmills and bio farms seem to make it worthwhile enough. In that distant future it will be able to spit out tanks at a reasonable rate. Besides it cuts the Mongols access to horses, which can't be bad and to me it looks like a good northern frontier town. Besides it complied with the rule "if a city by building wealth at its growth cap gives a positive contribution, then the city is worth founding" which I'm not sure whether it exists but it makes some sense. :D Built a monument asap while working the horses. It can start growing now as I hand it over (maybe it should build a gran now instead of the rax I queued).

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0339.jpg


The Japanese then looked to secure the rest of the northern frontier by first eliminating the BarbBarbarian dwelling of Cuman, picking up a worker in the process.

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0344.jpg


The only remaining thorn in our northern side was the Chinese city at this point. Qin was actually at war now with Hatty and Mansa, so it was time to blow the horns, despite not being really ready yet in the south, though by now sufficient units were in place in case of an unlikely counter attack by Qin.

Hangzhou is taken and burnt to the ground with special pleasure, as the RNG wasn't particularly friendly to us here (lost 2 cats and 2 axes over it :mad: (wait a minute, the screenshot says 2 spearmen? :smoke::hammer2: Did the game choose them over the axes in the same stack? :hmm:)).

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0346.jpg


We settle the place that was marked.

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0347.jpg


And our north thus looks like this, which means we can now fully concentrate on SE Asia.

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0354.jpg


By now we start to get units in place near Xian, but it's pretty well defended, at least given the losses we incurred at Hangzhou which had only 2 archers.

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0350.jpg


And I hand it over here. Meanwhile we have finished CS and started on Machinery which will take 10-ish turns or less if we can fuel our research by razing cities. With Samurai at hand likely SE Asia will fall fairly rapidly in our hands.

In other news, the great general made his academy in Nara. We also popped a great merchant which is left unused in our former cap. It would bulb paper.

There are quite some skirmishes going on among the barbarian tribes of the world. By the way, we met English and Spanish lady barbs. Barbarella?
Spoiler :
barbarella-autographed-photo.jpg


International relations:
TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0351.jpg


And technologically we're here.
TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0352.jpg

TAAB_3_Civ4ScreenShot0353.jpg


Cyrus and Saladin are doing rather well. I guess our success will depend on how fast we can cripple them both into oblivion after the Indians.
 

Attachments

Why are we marching agaist China without 2 settlers ready to get the spots as soon as we raze the cities ? BTW what are our plans on city spots in there ?

China settled Tibet ... more dragged armies to raze a 2 pop city in a hill :(

We will need a navy to deal with India, given that they settled Java.

Our economy is still on the ropes ... we need to get some rest after the current war, I guess . Atleast we need to grow up those 1-2 pop cities in the north to get them to contribute.

I agree, Cyrus is the beat to take down and doing that will be our major hurdle to the win. That is why we need to get India before Cyrus decides to go there himself ( he does that very frequently )
 
We are marching against China as we had to declare on him anyway to get Hangzhou. :p A settler can be whipped out from somewhere soon enough I suppose.

I'm thinking that maybe we should just get rid of Xian and leave China at that for the time being (extorting monarchy meanwhile ;)) so that we have a free pathway to reach Asoka's core asap.
 
Well I guess that took GK down a peg or two.

Hafta agree that our economy is on the ropes for the moment. As tempting as war vs Qin would be I'm not so sure we can afford further expansion into SE asia. Razing and replacing Chengdu looks a better short term option than Xian though would get squashed by barbarian 'culture' in the short term. I guess Kyoto could provide a settler fairly quickly.

We could also (or alternatively) think about settling Borneo and Australia. North Australia has a site with gems, iron and a fish; gems would be a useful resource with forges.

I reckon that we're more or less coming to the end of our first expansion. By the time the economy is recovered the barbarians will have gone all feudal on us and even our glorious Samurai might struggle against fortified LBs.
 
Sorry for lack of replies, I moved out of Grenoble (I am a parisian now!) and I had plenty of stuff to do to get settled...

looks like the last set was a good one (bad advertising :D)! gonna draft a plan for the next one in the evening :)

About civic, vassalage would bring an additional promo to our samurais... maybe it is better than bureau.

Cheers

edit: oh why no monarchy folks! ( note to self, do it!!!)
 
Maybe if we beat up Qin a bit more he'll give us monarchy to go away (and maybe he won't).
 
I moved out of Grenoble (I am a parisian now!)
So now all of a sudden the rest of your country despises you? :mischief:

About civic, vassalage would bring an additional promo to our samurais... maybe it is better than bureau.

Cheers

edit: oh why no monarchy folks! ( note to self, do it!!!)
Vassalage and HR both sound like useful civics indeed (and besides we make rolo happy by not being in bureau), but obviously we still need to get both corresponding techs. I'm hoping with pigswill we can at least extort monarchy from Qin.
 
i don't know how easy xian's going to be to take w/those 4 archers, w/cg1 and 2, w/first strikes and on a hill....

in any case, i'm not sure china will be worth worrying over (xian in particular). i agree w/rolo that we need to worry about our economy atm. our samarai's will make short work of there as i don't know how fast they'll get to longbows w/2 cities.

also, in the long view, we could make a beeline for the west towards the Gulf to cripple India, Persia and Arabia.

finally, from the default civic, i can't see any way that bur. is a bad move unless the maintenance is higher than the gain in the capital. what am i missing, o rolo :bow:
 
Welcome back Cripp!

@nocho: yeah! Now I need to despise them to give the change lol.

Well I think Xian should fall easy enough with the help of the incoming catapults (total of 5 iirc), and with assaulting from the other side of the river (tile north of the city). We should grab Chengdu too and then leave him in Tibet to get some techs. Speaking of which we should prolly go machinery -> lit (taking monarchy and easthetics from Qin) -> engeenering. Epics and trebuchets in mind.

I am gonna whip some settlers and workers as we badly need them. What do we do with the merchant? either we use it right now or we keep for a GA, but we need to choose imo :).

civics: HR/vassalge seems to get the most love, am I right here?

Playing shortly!
 
Golden age is probably the best use of GM, however its probably better to wait for cities to grow and more tiles being worked (or just more pop for specialists).

Worth whipping settler in Kyoto and then building a couple more straight to wear out the whip misery.

HR Vassalage would be good but first let's try to extort HR while teching machinery.

Rooster

pigswill: In the depths of despair, just because....

nocho: Just played and founded Unilateral City (roll on communism)

RRRaslkolnikov: UP from the country.

cripp7: No skipping on deck :thumbsup:

pholkhero: Still admiring his penthouse suite while patiently waiting his turn.

r rolo1: extraordinaire
 
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