They're Here...

[Ryika]

It's reassuring to know that some of the most powerful people in the world believe in aliens, the protocols, lizard people.. Or is it?

Stephen Hawking believes in aliens.

 

[Hrothbern]

Stephen Hawking believes in aliens.

He does
He does believe they are somewhere out there....
(though he does not say anything on aliens already here AFAIK)

And that's why he thinks it's silly to send out signals from the Earth (or that satellite long ago) to inform aliens we are out here !

 

[Ryika]

He does
He does believe they are somewhere out there....
(though he does not say anything on aliens already here AFAIK)

And that's why he thinks it's silly to send out signals from the Earth (or that satellite long ago) to inform aliens we are out here !

Actually, he says he is terrified by the idea that we might get a signal from an alien civilization one day and be stupid enough to send one back and has urged us to stay quiet in such a case.

But true, as far as I know he does not believe in "visitors", or at least does not think it's likely enough to be worth talking about. Of course that wasn't the premise, the premise was the existence of aliens.

 

[warpus]

Any war that would result wouldn't be our fault though even if we are the ones who shoot first. They are trespassing on our territory without making any attempts to communicate their intentions to us, so it would only be reasonable that we would then assume hostile intent and attempt to defend ourselves accordingly.

Much like a human pouring hot water over an ant nest wouldn't be the ant's fault, but at the same time you can't really expect humans to try to talk to ants before they build a new subdivision.

He does
He does believe they are somewhere out there....
(though he does not say anything on aliens already here AFAIK)

And that's why he thinks it's silly to send out signals from the Earth (or that satellite long ago) to inform aliens we are out here !

Yeah, on purpose signalling to the rest of the universe that we exist is one of the stupidest things this species has ever done.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

The second Solaris is better in my opinion as the first is too languid for American tastes. It is painfully slow. And it is never is clear why the alien planet is communicating to the crew and if it is intentional or merely an aftereffect like radiation. What I like about the film is it is so alien and unfathomable what is truly happening and the protagonist has no ultimate power to resist it as it produces a physical illusion tied to our strongest emotions.

Any subject like this one is very philosophical as nothing can be taken for granted as their development of ideas would be so radically different that our concepts and typical actions may have no correlation.

The video is not a fake. It is a self-directed aerial craft manuevering intelligently by a superior propulsion. It is not a weather phenomena or a burst of energy. It is proof that something is going on and being documented by governments with trained observers using rigorous methodology.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

interesting, I really didn't care for the second solaris in the slightest, it was an average watch and lost almost all the qualities the original one had. like you mention, tarkovski is very ambiguous about the intent, motive, even the state of existence and consciousness of the "aliens", he does not commit the mistake that so many other artists make: to paint aliens as just some modified version of humans. I however completely understand someone not liking the film, it moves very slowly and is not plot-focussed or driven at all.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

We could be like insects to a nonhuman intelligent species...and we do not communicate with insects.

 

[warpus]

The American Solaris was a love story. The original story was something else entirely..

I haven't watched the Russian version, but the book is of course a classic. I would highly recommend it, even if you hated either of the movies.

 

[Hrothbern]

interesting, I really didn't care for the second solaris in the slightest, it was an average watch and lost almost all the qualities the original one had. like you mention, tarkovski is very ambiguous about the intent, motive, even the state of existence and consciousness of the "aliens", he does not commit the mistake that so many other artists make: to paint aliens as just some modified version of humans. I however completely understand someone not liking the film, it moves very slowly and is not plot-focussed or driven at all.

A.E. van Vogt, a Canadian SF author, also wrote novels that were more experimental, out of the box re standard human like aliens.
Jack Vance tried a bit in a sequel of 4 novels: the city of the Chasch being the first one.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

For all we know, the Alcubierre drive works and a thousand years from now, after horrific war and ecological disaster, humanity is so desperate that they use even more advanced dimensional propulsion and try to prevent that future from happening. In that case, communication would contaminate us and undo what our future selves hope to accomplish.

See Lunapolis to see an insidious version.

They are not aliens but human beings as time travelers. Their best hope is oblivion for themselves as they wink out of existence.

 

[Kyriakos]

The American Solaris was a love story. The original story was something else entirely..

I haven't watched the Russian version, but the book is of course a classic. I would highly recommend it, even if you hated either of the movies.

Afaik the author didn't like the russian Solaris movie at all, either. Though i suppose it was closer to his own work. Iirc he called Tarkovski's movie "Crime and Punishment in space".
And tbh the movie does come across that way. There isn't that much focus on the alien either, given most of the movie (after they get to space as well) is about the human characters there, and their delusions or collapse.
I haven't read the book, though.

 

[Borachio]

Much like a human pouring hot water over an ant nest wouldn't be the ant's fault, but at the same time you can't really expect humans to try to talk to ants before they build a new subdivision.

Ants are one of the few critters I almost despise in my garden. They get almost everywhere and bite me without provocation.

I have tried reasoning with them. But I've found Ant powder is the only thing they understand.

And I'm not entirely sure they really understand that, as they just walk into it, and then carry on their business covered in white powder.

 

[Kyriakos]

Ants are one of the few critters I almost despise in my garden. They get almost everywhere and bite me without provocation.

I have tried reasoning with them. But I've found Ant powder is the only thing they understand.

And I'm not surely they really understand that, as they just walk into it, and then carry on their business covered in white powder.

Ants altered by events in space

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I love you !

It is indeed that story... for me also 40 years ago

Going through the details in self critisism...
I forgot that the local villagers got on board as well, the autopilot button was hit after that. I remembered the reason that they could not pilot back wrong. Not the spacecraft but the destroyed notes thereto, because by accident destroyed when the person that wanted to return was killed to prevent that.
Got it calibrated now

I should re-read it. It's in my book collection. I met Poul Anderson and his wife at NonCon 6, in Calgary, back in the '80s. Their son-in-law, Greg Bear, was a GoH at another convention I attended, a few years later.

If aliens are here, it is about time. It's not like we are doing much with the planet anyway.

On the contrary, we are doing a lot with the planet. Mind you, most of what we're doing isn't beneficial for most of the species that live here.

There's an episode of the original Cosmos series in which Carl Sagan asks how would we account to aliens for our stewardship of our planet. It's a valid question, even though I suppose a lot of politicians would say it's none of their business.

It's reassuring to know that some of the most powerful people in the world believe in aliens, the protocols, lizard people.. Or is it?

If they have solid, extraordinary evidence, that would be different from the current "But... but... we have a videotape!" (which everyone knows can be easily faked).

And I say this as someone who has been a science fiction fan for over 40 years. I'd love it if we could make contact with aliens who might be able to teach us new and better ways to fix the planet. But I'm not willing to jump on the UFO bandwagon without proof.

Much like a human pouring hot water over an ant nest wouldn't be the ant's fault, but at the same time you can't really expect humans to try to talk to ants before they build a new subdivision.

Well, the Vogons tried to talk to us (the plans for the hyperspace bypass were on file at the local office on one of the planets orbiting Alpha Centauri and it's our fault we didn't look into it in time and file a protest).

Yeah, on purpose signalling to the rest of the universe that we exist is one of the stupidest things this species has ever done.

That's assuming there is anyone within listening distance who could get here any time soon. Science fiction has tossed out relativity (mostly; some authors still pay attention to it), but RL hasn't.

We could be like insects to a nonhuman intelligent species...and we do not communicate with insects.

On the contrary, I communicate very clearly and succinctly with the mosquitoes and flies I'm determined to kill. I won't repeat any of my words here, though, since they would be infractible.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

Val, if the tape is fake, it is faked by the federal government. Is that what you think?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Val, if the tape is fake, it is faked by the federal government. Is that what you think?

If it's a fake, it was faked by someone. Obviously I can't know by whom. Politicians don't have a natural immunity to being fooled by fakery and pseudoscience.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

Then it would be fake from the military. I think it was Chile who released similar footage many years ago but at a distance of tracking and evading fighter pilots.

 

[Kyriakos]

No, not ghosts...

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018...-leaders-to-take-threat-aliens-seriously.html



The pilot wants Stephen Hawking to watch the video, yes, they have video... I've never been much into the UFO scene but if we have actual military pilots chasing and filming them, I'm impressed.

I am not sure what Stephen Hawking will be looking at, though. I mean... it is a video with (at best) a UFO, moving in some manner, including some rotating. Hawking is a physicist; what can he add to the video?
Re Hawking's views on contacting aliens... i recall that from (iirc) last year. His views aren't about physics either; in fact he didn't say anything of importance, just 'warned' that contacting aliens would be a bad idea and that we would stand to lose. Ok. This isn't tied to his insight from physics, though. For all he knows the aliens may not be 3d-based anyway, and could already be here with no one noticing. They may also not notice us. And this could just never change.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

Yeah, that is the basis for the IDH because it is presumed that:
1. The nonhuman intelligent species can fold space and thus exceed standard propulsion and negate distance.
2. Such things explain unusual manuevering.
3. This is why craft seem to warp ie temporal distortion where the craft seems to elongate. That can be seen in several UFO photos and not an effect of high velocity(not blurring).
4. The actual appearance of the craft may look nothing like what we see as we cannot see more than 3d
5. We see slices of time as it takes time to register movement. So we see fragments of x, y, z axes positioning (think how old film movie stock look as separate frames) but not a totally smooth transition. Our eyes see 3D. Our brain interprets and understands 4D. Our eyes cannot see 4D though...not directly.
6. So if they can exceed that sensory ability...
7. Or can exist outside of Time then we have even less in common then we traditionally think.

As in Arrival, that the 4 dimension doesn't exist as stages but their consciousness can jump back and forth even beyond into the future. Then all decision making has totally changed into ultimate long term goals being accomplished.

And that is only 4D. What about even more like if they can travel across multiple timelines and choose outcomes in 5D? Or even leave into alternative realities where humans never evolved in 6D but an entirely different species did instead?

 

[Kyriakos]

Yeah, that is the basis for the IDH because it is presumed that:
1. The nonhuman intelligent species can fold space and thus exceed standard propulsion and negate distance.
2. Such things explain unusual manuevering.
3. This is why craft seem to warp ie temporal distortion where the craft seems to elongate. That can be seen in several UFO photos and not an effect of high velocity(not blurring).
4. The actual appearance of the craft may look nothing like what we see as we cannot see more than 3d
5. We see slices of time as it takes time to register movement. So we see fragments of x, y, z axes positioning (think how old film movie stock look as separate frames) but not a totally smooth transition. Our eyes see 3D. Our brain interprets and understands 4D. Our eyes cannot see 4D though...not directly.
6. So if they can exceed that sensory ability...
7. Or can exist outside of Time then we have even less in common then we traditionally think.

As in Arrival, that the 4 dimension doesn't exist as stages but their consciousness can jump back and forth even beyond into the future. Then all decision making has totally changed into ultimate long term goals being accomplished.

And that is only 4D. What about even more like if they can travel across multiple timelines and choose outcomes in 5D? Or even leave into alternative realities where humans never evolved in 6D but an entirely different species did instead?

Interesting, although on my part (when mentioning non-3d based aliens) i was thinking of beings which do not manifest in 3d, ie do not move/progress/function in 3d. This may be due to having analogous (but not really similar anyway) functions in more than 3d, but maybe they just don't exist in this sort of matrix in the first place. In such a case, though, assuming something of theirs can still be visibly picked up, indeed one would expect it to be far more chaotic or bizarre than the flying mushroom thing in the video which apparently rotated pretty smoothly ^^
(on my part i wasn't thinking of time as an actual sensed dimension in such a manner)