They're Here...

[Colon]

Can we expect Fox to be linking Clinton to alien overlords in the future then? Was Seth Rich really murdered to cover up their presence? And what with BENGHHHAAAZZZZIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE?

 

[warpus]

Ants are one of the few critters I almost despise in my garden. They get almost everywhere and bite me without provocation.

I have tried reasoning with them. But I've found Ant powder is the only thing they understand.

And I'm not entirely sure they really understand that, as they just walk into it, and then carry on their business covered in white powder.

And that's pretty much how most encounters with aliens would go. They would arrive, try to talk to us using their form of communication, wonder why it doesn't work, and then pour human powder all over our cities and carry on with their day.

Afaik the author didn't like the russian Solaris movie at all, either. Though i suppose it was closer to his own work. Iirc he called Tarkovski's movie "Crime and Punishment in space".
And tbh the movie does come across that way. There isn't that much focus on the alien either, given most of the movie (after they get to space as well) is about the human characters there, and their delusions or collapse.
I haven't read the book, though.

I'm not surprised, Lem always seemed very particular in his opinions, and very unique in his style of thought. So I'm not surprised any deviation from the messages he tried to express in Solaris would be met with a negative review from him. Mind you the American Solaris was a totally different story overall, and one that Lem would have obviously disliked

 

[Kyriakos]

And that's pretty much how most encounters with aliens would go. They would arrive, try to talk to us using their form of communication, wonder why it doesn't work, and then pour human powder all over our cities and carry on with their day.

I still find it unlikely that 3d-based aliens we can observe, have actually come here. That said, if they did, it would make hugely more sense not to do so by travelling through space in spaceships, but warping.
I recall that some of my most frightening dreams, in elementary school, were of an alien invasion, which happened through a portal opening up in the sky - ie they warped to the atmosphere, they didn't use outer space ^^
They had cool and massive spaceships, though.

 

[warpus]

I still find it unlikely that 3d-based aliens we can observe, have actually come here. That said, if they did, it would make hugely more sense not to do so by travelling through space in spaceships, but warping.
I recall that some of my most frightening dreams, in elementary school, were of an alien invasion, which happened through a portal opening up in the sky - ie they warped to the atmosphere, they didn't use outer space ^^
They had cool and massive spaceships, though.

If aliens have been here, the way I see it there are probably 2 most probable scenarios:

- They have sent robots to study other solar systems and didn't actually arrive in flesh
- They are so advanced we are pretty much insects to them and they ignore us because we don't matter

Having said that, I would be curious to find out what all those UFO sightings have been about. Most of them are nothing, but some of them might be something.. Who knows though, for now there is no reason to suspect that any of it is actual aliens

 

[Berzerker]

I am not sure what Stephen Hawking will be looking at, though. I mean... it is a video with (at best) a UFO, moving in some manner, including some rotating. Hawking is a physicist; what can he add to the video? Re Hawking's views on contacting aliens... i recall that from (iirc) last year. His views aren't about physics either; in fact he didn't say anything of importance, just 'warned' that contacting aliens would be a bad idea and that we would stand to lose. Ok. This isn't tied to his insight from physics, though. For all he knows the aliens may not be 3d-based anyway, and could already be here with no one noticing. They may also not notice us. And this could just never change.

I was thinking the same thing, Hawking's expertise is not exactly about how spaceships maneuver.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

Human roaches takes on a new meaning from Men in Black.

 

[Berzerker]

one of the pilots said they were drones, that would explain why they can outmaneuver human-manned craft

 

[Cassius Critzer]

Or if we are to believe The Day After Roswell, captured nonhuman intelligent species technology was rigorously studied according to Colonel Philip Corso who was installed as an administrator over a division for captured foreign technology ie the Foreign Technology Desk. Then was shown this technology and told to oversee scientists, military and civillian,in the most secret group in the nation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After_Roswell

Such things led to fiber optics,nitinol ( a memory metal), the first transistor, etc. Nitinol can be used to send current through in a proportional way, and that in turn contracts the metal by a repeatable amount, and this can be used to incrementally move.

Or that drone may have antigrav properties, something actually alluded to in leaked technical drawings. And was actively piloted under controlled conditions. TR-3B
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)

It is hypothesized that this information is compartmentalized and thus one alphabet agency doesn't know on purpose what another does for plausible deniability.

To test what servicemen would do when exposed to startling top secret information, a disinformation program was created, or many of them, in which a soldier would accidentally by design be exposed to false or incomplete data pointing to nonhuman intelligent species, sometimes labeled extraterrestrial biological entities (EBE) and then to see if they cracked and told anyone. Then they have deniability as a parallel counterintelligence project oversaw this to test readiness and leaks.

Some early UFO reports were actually the prototype drone program called RPV Remote Piloted Vehicle. Later a UAV unmanned aerial vehicle. Scroll to the late fifties USA.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm always going to buy the most likely UFO conclusion until I see extraordinary evidence otherwise, and that conclusion is the source of the unidentified object is still Earth.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I was thinking the same thing, Hawking's expertise is not exactly about how spaceships maneuver.

Um

That's exactly what his expertise is. Maneuvering spaceships is based on physics. Have you ever read his Brief History of Time? A lot of his work is directly applicable to spaceship maneuvering and navigation.

 

[Berzerker]

I thought he was a theorist, not a rocket scientist...

 

[Cassius Critzer]

The most likely hypotheis is the IDH. And Vallee and Hynek discussed it as they worked together on Project Blue Book and I believe Hynek ended up agreeing with it.

And one theory is a nonhuman intelligent terran-based species that in the past came from elsewhere using dimensional travel. And have used various ways to control human development, likely in myth systems, and later by encounters in the modern age.

Vallee writes of similarities in the abduction phenomena and Celtic myths and legends of changling babies and even the depiction of beings.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Rocket science is applied theory.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I looked up the original Cosmos episode that dealt with Betty and Barney Hill. It's in the opening portion of the episode "Encyclopaedia Galactica":

This is the episode in which Sagan states, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

 

[Cassius Critzer]

The best incident prior to the official Chilean release was the JAL 1628 incident.

What didn't come out until later was all of the radar data and years later an administrator went public with details.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_flight_1628_incident

See the John Callahan interview. I won't post the video.

 

[Commodore]

Then we find out that we just attack an alien messanger and because of our violent warlike ways,

Defending ourselves does not make us violent or warlike.

Humanity will be exterminated to prevent us exporting our violence to the rest of the galaxy.

If aliens really used this reasoning, the irony would almost be too much. "Let's stop violence by committing one of the most horrible violent acts (genocide) imaginable!"

It would also be a good example that just because you are capable of building advanced technology, doesn't mean you are intelligent.

I dont think these are hostile. similar UFO designs have been observed for a while now and non of them have carried out any attacks.

One does not have to attack to be considered hostile. The fact that they feel they can have free run of our planet without our permission could certainly be construed as hostile intent, even if they have no plans to actually attack us. Plus, if alien abduction stories are to be believed, I would say kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment of our citizens would certainly fall within the realm of "attack" and would be a clear display of hostile intent. At the very least, it is a violation of our sovereignty, which here on Earth is considered an act of war.

Why do you think aliens have a concept of "territory"? In order to have a concept of territory, you need to have a concept of materialism. You also need to have a concept of ownership. It is also not implied that any trespassing of "owned territory" is necessarily violation, that is also your implication. What if they never even had to struggle for ressources - What if, just due to the nature of their environment, they have been in a post-scarcity scenario from the get-go?

What their cultural and societal norms are, are completely irrelevant because they are visiting our world. As such, it is not unreasonable for us to expect aliens to abide by our customs and not offend us. It's kind of like when you visit another country, you are expected to adjust to and abide by their laws, society, and culture because you are the outsider and have no right to impose your own ways on them. If these hypothetical aliens were really as intelligent as people seem to think they would be, you'd think they'd have the good sense to study our society from a distance first to learn how to not offend us and then take the proper steps diplomatically to avoid any unfortunate incidents between our civilizations.

You are just anthropormphising for no good reason.

Actually, there's a very good reason to anthropomorphize. I stated it above. They are the ones visiting our world. The means it is their responsibility to abide by our laws, customs, and societal norms if they wish to operate here unmolested. We, as the native inhabitants of this world, have no obligation to accommodate the aliens or their culture. So if they have no concept of territory or sovereignty, they better learn real quick if they don't want one of their scientists or diplomats getting shot down and killed/captured.

Much like a human pouring hot water over an ant nest wouldn't be the ant's fault, but at the same time you can't really expect humans to try to talk to ants before they build a new subdivision.

This isn't a very good analogy. A better analogy would be how modern societies send researchers to study some of those primitive tribes still living in the Amazon or in the South Pacific. Some of those tribes are openly hostile when their territory is encroached upon, and rightfully so. Would you advocate sending in the full might of the US military if one of those tribes captured and killed some university professor that decided to get too close to one of those hostile tribes? No, you wouldn't because that would be a completely unreasonable response to a society just trying to protect itself from an unknown threat.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Defending ourselves does not make us violent or warlike.
If aliens really used this reasoning, the irony would almost be too much. "Let's stop violence by committing one of the most horrible violent acts (genocide) imaginable!"
It would also be a good example that just because you are capable of building advanced technology, doesn't mean you are intelligent.
.

Nah Its called "self defence", you shot down and killed its messanger first.
It will be like curing cancer to them
Micro Life Matters !

A more peaceful solution would be to enchase the solar system in a dyson sphere, or imprison humanity to a single solar system using technological means.

 

[Hrothbern]

4. The actual appearance of the craft may look nothing like what we see as we cannot see more than 3d

So..

whenever you see up to 5 balls moving around close to each other, one ball a bit bigger and more often disappearing....
take heed
It could be the fingers of a hand of a 4-dimensional alien, shaped like us.... trying to grab you

(from a SF short story... there are not many 4-dimensional of them)

 

[r16]

well , once again nobody is here .

and it's a fake . To prove America can see even Aliens and WW III is a stroll in the park , no big thing . You can get banned in an instant is some site elsewhere for even uttering the word UFO and yeah they are all about how American tech saw them . And otherwise , it's some American device .

edit : And just for the laughs (because Zuma is up and running or whatever) that site has deleted my post to the same tendencies , without ever letting it to appear online in the first place . Allah IS The Most Merciful , for it would be real fun if Aliens existed and arrived and given a demonstration of American superiority in firepower and tech .

edit 2: Whaaat ? ı didn't even mention that a previous USS Princeton suffered like the only "stacked" attack by the Japanese in WW II (where planes were in like defenceable formations and stayed in them) and got sunk . And the casualties mounted only after some cruiser came alongside to fight the fire , instead of abandon ship before time of explosion .

 

[Commodore]

Nah Its called "self defence", you shot down and killed its messanger first.

As intruders they forfeit their right to self defense. If a burglar breaks in my home and I pull a gun on him, he has no moral right to defend himself since it was his intrusion into my "territory" that caused me to take aggressive action against him.

Same with aliens. If they fly their craft around our airspace without first obtaining the permission of relevant governing bodies here on Earth, then they have no moral right to shoot back at us or retaliate by any other means when we start shooting at them.