This is my boomstick!!!!

Killroyan · Jul 9, 2012

Arf, good call on the acadamy. Again, this game is so differrent from my normal games I tend to forget things (that and a lot of partying this weekend that didn't help

) In all my normal games the capital now has an acadamy by long.

Then about the civic change. I am forgetting the most obvious one. Switching from slavery to serfdom. Serfdom is also low maintenance and our workers will work harder (we really need that). Both Bureau and vassalage are good. Vassalage for Cams comment and the free units. But I think bureau is better. We can switch the gold mine to the capital, get the acadamy, speeds up uni. I think this will be a boost of 40 beakers or so which is a lot in our current state. I will keep the scientists for 5 turns untill the GP is born and then switch them to production and growth.

Machinery: Lets see what GP we get and lets see if our spy is succesfull

Update tomorrow night (tuesday).

vranasm · Jul 9, 2012

Killroyan said:
About the drafting and the angries. We get 1 angry as far as I know for hell no we won't go but we are going to 2 pop draft for rifles right?

wrong

3 angry for 1 pop draft rifles. 2-pop draft are infantry

you obviously need to be in nationalism, thus having barracks everywhere is good :-)

you need globe theatre (don't remember if you already built it or plan to build it), that way you have at least 1 city that is unhappy immune, city needs tons of food so it can do size 6->7/turn with granary (so you need something like +18 food surplus), there was some article about good GT city, would have to search.

(not sure with rules now, but do I remember right that you have to draft each turn??)

didn't saw your save too long so can't give game specific advice

edit:
on standard maps it's 3 drafts/turn so you can rotate a bit the drafts around with 2 drafts in normal cities, the GT city should be ideally drafted each turn.

Killroyan · Jul 9, 2012

Thx for the info Vranasm and it shows that I draft too little

Hence my proposition for this game. This is so much out of my comfort zone

So turnset played and things are really shaping up for us. At turn 0 I turn to our big friend and beg for 50 gold. Sure thing, here you go and we are 50 gold richer. Roosevelt has too much money on his hands. Do you want wheat for 13 gold? Sure thing and voila we are in the positive again at 10%.

Next turn feudalism is researched. I immediately swap to bureau and serfdom. Who needs slavery anyway

I swap the gold mine to the capital and keep running two scientists for that acadamy. I also start ordering around hindu temples everywhere. These babies pay themselves back. They provide a happy and 2 hammers. What is not to like. Normally I would whip them but hey, no go in this game.

With serfdom in I start chain irrigating a lot. The corn at the capital finally gets wet. A lot of grassland is changed into farm. The first universities see the light and we are getting closer to................................... wait for it............................ 100 beakers per turn at 1260!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOOOO.

What is this? OMG we are the pope? Didn't know that yet. As we are not ready for war yet I decided to vote yes for open borders. Who knows if we can scout the land a little or get on Hatties good side and get some goodies. She is loaded and wants to trade all kinds of stuff.

We are getting closer to our next GP. Drumroll...................... wait for it..............
wait for it.................................................. Oh crap James Bond. Oh well of to Japan to spy.

Machinery was getting along so I decided to steal aesthetics with our spy first. Don't know if it was the wisest choice but machinery was already halfway in. I thought aest would upen up lit and dram and we can use both. I have several more spies on the way now to Japan (Canterbury is producing 2 right now) as we have a ton of spy points now on Roosie.

Machinery is in and we have a decision to make. Apparantly Hatty is more open to us and we can make the following trade:

That is meditation+HBR+drama+Literature+ world map+550 gold for gunpowder. I am not keen on trading gunpowder especially with teh upcoming war but it could get us out of the tech hole hard. Especially with our spies being able to steal guilds and engineering in the next 5 turns or so. With the accumulated points on Roosie we could all steal those tech too to be honest and I wouldn't mind meditation for the hindu monasteries. Powerfull buildings.

So do we want this trade? I am reluctant to say yes. I think we can steal all the techs from Roosevelt with enough spies and just keep accumulating spy points against him. Build up an army and hit him hard with maybe a bribe on Mehmed.

First things to get are engineering/med/drama if you ask me to steal. We can research guilds in 11 turns and we need at least 3 more turns with our spy. So by the time we can steal guilds it is already half way in. A bit of a waste if you ask me. Engineering is plain great for the trebs. We could go into warmode after the steal and just start a war on Roosie and at least capture 3 or 4 of his cities. The strange thing is that he is 0,7 of us but hasn't got a stack of doom.

Last pic is the city screen:

We have 3 more uni's on the way (sped up with some chops) so capital can start on Oxford. The capital can grow 2 more sizes due to hindu temple. I am running 2 scientists again.

Overall gameplan imho:
1) Steal all necessary techs from Roosie with spies. Keep spy points on Roosie.
2) Go into warmode and prepare a ton of trebs/muskets for a war against Roosie.
3) Prepare some defenses in our land for a counter strike by Hatty/Roosie.
4) Get Mehmed to friendly. We could trade CoL against his WM and 100 gold for some extra points. He has no problems with declaring war on Roosie but not for CS/CoL/theo/WM and 186 gold. Hard bargain.
5) We could trade elephants for clams/banana + 6 gpt. Would not be bad to get the extra gold and give Mehmed some extra str and brownie points for trading. If we can get Mehmed to declare on Roosevelt we do have a shot at backstabbing Roosevelt. I think it is our best shot. So after the infra get the units pumping and lets conquer. Discussion time.

CreeDakota · Jul 11, 2012

wont the trade give us trading with worst enemy diplo negatives with mehmed?

who is up?

I agree with the basic game plan...bribe Mehmed...DOW Roosey. I would also consider trading peace for techs if that works out to keep up in Tech.

Cam_H · Jul 11, 2012

I'm up ... I didn't notice that Roy edited his post until two hours ago. I'm at work, but will look at a PPP this evening.

Killroyan · Jul 12, 2012

I vote against the trade with Hatty anyway. Thought about it and we can steal everything from Roosie. All we need are some stationary spies and some luck. The trade with Hatty just shows for me again that this game is totally different from the normal games. In a normal game this would have been a very good deal even though it is a low tech deal. Med will cost about 100 esp and we have 3800 and rising against Roosie. That should be enough to get engineering/guilds/med/drama and even maybe HBR. I wouldn't mind HBR and guilds to get some knights against his possible siege. I still wasn't able to detect his SoD. Roosie is also allocating extra spy points towards us as he is at 20% esp. We might want to station a spy in Canterbury as a countermeasure.

I just wished I inserted into the rules that if we could get liberalism for nationalism we would have been allowed to deter from the tech path

I do think that we can get Mehmed to declare war but he has to get the necessary techs first then for education. Then we can give him a big fish.

Cam_H · Jul 12, 2012

PPP:

'Yes' ... Hatshepsut deal isn't 'on' for me either. Trade away a monopoly warfare tech' to a future enemy with no prospect of a 2-for-1 or 3-for-2 or 3-for-1 etc ... ? Doesn't seem appealing.

Agree that we should press on with pumping out Spies ... Tokyo is the city that delivers the best 'rate' for stealing tech's ... we should be there.

I'd rather not put :science:

into Guilds therefore. Indeed, any tech' that we're lining up to thieve.

Engineering is the tech' I'd steal first - if we want to be pumping out Treb's in preparation, the sooner the better.

We're not in a position to go into 'full war mode' ... three cities are tied up with University builds and we need more Spies. Courthouses are sorely lacking in some cities also.

I'd renegotiate our Pigs deal with Mehmed, and see what else we can garner out of him.

We're no longer in a position to build an Academy while Printing Press is not known to us. It does beg the question on whether we should continue to run Scientists. I guess it depends upon the success of our espionage to some extent.

In terms of city builds ... the current Universities get finished, and London gets cracking on Oxford University. Generally the builds queued up already are what we should go with. Forges and Barracks where missing ... otherwise Spies and Siege.

Killroyan · Jul 12, 2012

We could go 100% gold for 6 or 7 turns and then get engi and guilds from our spies at the 50% discount. That is a really good idea. After that we can run some turns at 100% science again. How can you check where the best place for a spy is? Right now we are stealing from Nagasaki, left of Canterbury, the closest one as I thought that was the most important factor for spying. There is one stationary spy there (1 turn there), another will arrive in 1 turn and Canterbury finishes a spy next turn and another in 3 turns.

Running the scientists in our capital is still feasable though. There are no tiles that bring in 6 science yet, not even with the bureau multiplier. If possible chop out uni's

Cam_H · Jul 12, 2012

Thanks for the response.

Killroyan said:
How can you check where the best place for a spy is?

In BUG's espionage advisor: It's a tiny matter that will probably have no impact on our success or failure, nonetheless;

Killroyan · Jul 12, 2012

Ok, thx for the picture. Never looked at it that way. It propably also has something to do with size and same religion. We better allocate the spies then to Tokyo. We save 10% esp points easily but it will take another 3 turns then to steal. I suggest we leave the stationary spy in Nagasaki, but the new ones go to Tokyo.

Also if we are going to run 0% science then I suggest to fire the 2 scientists from the capital and grow as hard as possible to size 14 working as many cottages as possible (and the gold mine). When it reaches size 14 switch the corn to York again so it can keep growing. I am still working on a chain irrigation along York to give it some more food.

Cam_H · Jul 14, 2012

Lots of micro, but nothing terribly remarkable to report. Mixed success on the espionage front. Oxford in two, and we can probably self-research Guilds from there given specialists have been dropping in :science:

over the last 10 turns despite the commerce slider. We improved some deals, but nothing much has changed on the diplomatic landscape. Workers are looking for jobs.

Spoiler :

Killroyan · Jul 14, 2012

I am almost amazed by the sheer numbers of the AI. We are gathering a nice stack of doom and still we are only at 0,6 and 0,7 of the AI in power. It is a good thing they spread out their forces normally. The cultural pressure is killing in Canterbury. Good thing we have engineering now. Trebs, pikemen and musketmen and lets get Roosie. If we start the war with the Roosie, it should be possible to get Mehmed to join in. We still can't trade a thing to him, that backward fool

Roosevelt is going the economic path which is good. I bet he will never see us coming. I suggest one round of heavy troop building and some more stealing and then hit him hard otherwise he might get out of hand with a military tech.

The diplo screen is just madness. Hats is at +22 with Roosevelt??? I mean seriously??? 22?????? By god. Even though she is a vassal? We are working hard for Mehmed and he is only +9.

Nice turnset Cam. We are almost in shape for our first war. Cree, begin the preparations. Woop, sound the war horns after that I guess.

Cam_H · Jul 14, 2012

I tend to agree with you - we're close to being ready to DoW. CreeDakota might be able to kick it off successfully after only a few turns into the next turnset, although I'm fine to wait until woopdeedoo's turnset if the roster wants. Knights would be handy, but they're not necessary.

Just some supplemental notes on the cities, most of which is pretty obvious

:

London: We can't get Oxford University up quicker than 2 Turns. Once done, we can self-research Guilds and use our espionage points on other tech's of Roosevelt's. Consider Walls and a Castle afterward (?).
York: Just trying to re-grow to the happy cap before working Cottages.
Nottingham: It can grow one more population point for the Workshop or a specialist.
Hastings: Not much to split the decision to grow with the Plains Farm or continue to work the Plains Hill Mine.
Canterbury: The seventh Spy should be sufficient for theft purposes, and this city can probably get back to military production soon.
Coventry: All the good tiles are now taken and it only has limited opportunity for growth. We spat out a Worker here last turnset, but if we wanted more Settlers (e.g. between York and Canterbury, or east of London, or the dreaded foodless Fur city) this city might be good to use.
Warwick: There's still an opportunity to chop here for more so-so Plains Farms. Can add a pop point before the happy cap.
Torquay: Can be reworked to specialists over the Mines if preferred. We're running a Spy specialist, as Great Spies are proving to be quite handy!
Newcastle: Temple will allow us to add a pop point before the happy cap.
Oxford: Room to grow, but possibly there's a case to just stagnate the city and work the Mine or an Engineer seeing that its good tiles are now used.
Dover and Liverpool: Maybe Dover can steal one of the Cottaged tiles from Liverpool seeing that Liverpool's at its happy cap while Dover's got room to grow. Chopping an option in Liverpool.
Brighton: Please note that there's a 'stop growth' on this city.

Killroyan · Jul 14, 2012

If Cree feels strong enough in his turnset, sound the warhorns. Roosie is teching like mad and I am afraid he might get to gunpowder soon too.

About extra settlers. We can run 10 or 20% science slider right now. I don't think we have much room left for more cities upkeep wise. I say we focus on war first and then settle them after our first war. At that point our workers are not doing anyhting anymore and we could cottage the place between York and Canterbury.

Knight are great against Samurai. They are immune to first strikes and if we can get stables out we could get CI shock knights who will eat samurai for breakfast. But we also have C1 DrI shock musketmen so that should be sufficient to deal with Samu's.

Roster:
Cree (your turn)
Woop (on deck)
Killroy
Cam_H (just played)

Cam_H · Jul 14, 2012

I'd keep running at 0% :science:

pre-Oxford University unless it's really important to acquire Guilds now - of course we'll need Horseback Riding as well for Knights, which could be easily stolen.

I'm more than fine with 'no more cities' ... there's just that stretch of jungle north of York that could make a nice mid-sided city, and the Rice-Copper east of London could work ... I'm a little tempted by both, but not pushing for either.

Killroyan · Jul 15, 2012

I agree with the science slider. My comment about the 10-20% was about how many more cities we can found. The upkeep of those 2 cities will increase the upkeep of all the others. I would love to have them but I do not know yet if they are feasible at this point.

CreeDakota · Jul 16, 2012

Ok I looked at the save a bit.

1) Mehmed is stuck at pleased. We need to either adopt vassalage and/or gift some techs to him. If there is some scub land somewhere I would consider building a city to gift/ liberate him. We need him Friendly to trade techs. Finishing Oxford and then going into vassalage/troop build mode is OK, but im not thrilled about it. Opinions?
2) Mehmed won't go to war with Roosevelt. It says he is bribable but when you offer him everything we have (Theology/Civil Service) he won't do it. I guess is he is afraid of him. He may be more inclined if we are at war and eat a SOD.
3) Roosy has a good army but it is dispersed. Within 5 turns 5 of each Samuri, Cats, War Ele, and Knight will be on our front door. He is a bit light on siege. If we use a good chunk of our catapults we can wipe his SOD.
4) I think there is some room for more specialists in the empire. Rep + GPPoints yum. Really any specialist helps us so I am hiring Max in the couple of cities running specials.
5) Nagasaki is a pretty easy to capture city. My war plan would be...capture Nagasaki.....intercept and wipe his SOD...march to Kagasaki....Bribe Mehmed into war....Trade tech for peace....redeclare.
6) I plan to DOW in 8 turns. That is long enough to get a spy into Nagaski to setup a revolt.
7) I plan for My Turnset to be build up..Dow capture his city. Next player gets to defend us!

Cam_H · Jul 16, 2012

Sounds fine by me. It'd be good to steal Banking once Guilds is ours, and we can look at civics again with Mercantilism as a new option.

Killroyan · Jul 16, 2012

Mehmed wasn't even bribeable with Col/Theo/CS + world map + 200 gold. That is why I said we might want to give him some techs so education opens up. I think that he may be inclined to go to war for that. Switching to vassalage is just mmmm at this point. We finally have Oxford and bureau and a load of cottages to work to finally get a normal beaker amount.

Nagasaki is the easiest one to hit but the city we want most is Tokyo. That city is just incredible. From Tokyo we should get to his capital with all the wonders in it if I am not mistaken. Overall the plan sounds fine by me Cree. Go for it. Lets get Roosie!!!

CreeDakota · Jul 18, 2012

ok next turnset played.

went pretty well. Mehmed at friendly. At war with Roosy and Hatty. Captured one city. still have good stacks and no SOD in sight.

ill try and post a Turn log tomorrow, tired now. But here is save and screenshots

This is my boomstick!!!!

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