Thought Topic: What will happen when the world runs out of oil within 40 years?

What will happen when oil and other resources run out?

  • Alternative sources of energy will quickly take over (electric, solar)

    Votes: 47 51.6%
  • "Oil-Riots"

    Votes: 12 13.2%
  • Wars over the last drop of oil (no trolls on this one, please)

    Votes: 16 17.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 8.8%
  • Nothing - Oil will never run out.

    Votes: 8 8.8%

  • Total voters
    91
Oil is just used to control the population of society. Multinational companies like BP, shell, Q8, Esso, Texico, and others control the governments of this world. Indeed these companies tell the government exactly what to do, and they comply. If oil ran out they will simply start drilling in North Pole or north Russia and North America. The game is simple keep the people on the edge; while you make your billions out of them, keep the people ignorant and dependent on the system.

Oil will never run out, until companies find other means of Power.
 
What I don't get is this: there are several oil-producing nations, and not one of them is using that enormous profit for researching alternative energy sources. If they did that, they'd be on top when the oil runs out - as it is now, they will become seriously poor!
 
Babs has a point!

Even Hitler launched 'Operation Citadel' at the behest of his industrialist advisors!
 
Actually, someone said a little ways back that artificial oil made out of garbage creats more energy than it produces. There is a plant in Ohio (I think) that creates far more energy than it uses. It's actually very efficient. The only problem is that the federal government would rather war with Iraqi extremists than invest money in this viable solution. Never elect oil executives to be your President.
 
I've been reading-or -trying to anyway to find out if there is any truth in the predicted Oil Peak and Oil crisis. Through various sources that you can find at the end of my post I think that the following can be considered as facts:
1.The estimates for the oil reserves at the current 1.4% growth rate range from 40 to 56 years.
2.The cost of alternative forms of energy (manufacturing,implementation,retrofiting) in oil (yes, in oil)combined with their low energy profit ratio makes their use uncertain, to say the least.
3.A solution will be the use of shale oil and tar sands as alternative.Supplies seem to be enough for more than 400.This solution will mean much higher crude oil prices.
4.Nobody seems to know how long it would take to make these secondary sources usable.
5.The consensus is that the investment on alternatve energy research is quite unlike to enable the use of alternative sources in the next 56 years, in a way that would replace oil.
Make up your own mind:
http://www.politinfo.com/articles/article_2004_06_16_3207.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/general/2004-06-16-insight_x.htm
http://www.business-standard.com/bsonline/storypage.php?bKeyFlag=BO&autono=1890
http://www.peakoil.net/
http://www.americanassembler.com/issues/peak_oil/peak_oil.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/everest12132003.html
http://www.energycrisis.com/uk/planNow.htm (Financial Times reprint)
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0307-02.htm (LA TIMES reprint)
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081803_hydrogen_answers.html
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/youngquist/altenergy.htm
 
@Garbarsardar.jr
As usual you are talking good sense on the issue. However I have to differ with you a little about the importance of focussing on depletion. The link in my sig is to a group of academics, economists, geologists and other assorted experts inside and outside the oil industry who have reached the conclusion that the crunch will come NOT at the time of reserve depletion but at the time of peak production, because oil demand only goes one way - up.

And taking everything into account they currently estimate that this will be 2008.

I'd be interested to hear what you thought of their arguments in comparison with those other sites you've mentioned.

Thanks.
 
@ Evertonian I have posted the same link above. I've been through their website and they seem reasonable, and not a sect of doom.Nevertheless what I posted above (very cautiously) -see fact 4- comes fron a variety of often contradictory sources.
What peakoil says makes sense but economics is not my forte. I would really like some of the usual (economic) suspects to comment on that.
I dont want to catastrophize, or engage in conspiracy theories but my gut feeling is that we won't learn the truth before it is too late...
 
Garbarsardar.jr said:
@ Evertonian I have posted the same link above.

My bad :blush: I'm clearly too stupid to read a link so I don't know why I'm pontificating on such weighty matters as the depletion of fossil fuel reserves :crazyeye:

On the economics point in the short term the demand for oil is inelastic. This means that the demand for oil will not move by as much (in percentage terms) as the price moves. eg if the price of oil increases by 20%, the number of barrels bought in a day will not fall by 20%.

Now demand for oil has been going up pretty much since the properties of oil were discovered but it hasn't mattered because the supply of oil has been able to keep pace.

The contention that ASPO (the group who's site is in my sig) make is that oil supply is likely for various unavoidable reasons (geological, technological etc) to stop increasing in 2008 (could be 2010 if we're very lucky). Therefore oil consumption will HAVE to go down. But the world economy is just utterly unprepared for this to happen.
 
I agree in principle.(did I start understanding ecomics all of a suden?).
The 2008 prediction is based I guess on an increase in growth rate and not the 1.4% used by the 56-year prediction.Apart from that there seems to be a general consensus that in the long term we are pretty much *****d.
For the past century most of the advances in transportation and industry have relied on energy from petroleum and other fossil fuels, but some experts warn that the peak of oil production worldwide may be reached soon and that the economic and political consequences could be enormous.

Is the world running out of oil? In the debate over that question between energy experts, environmentalists and government policy makers it often boils down to the old question about whether the glass is half full or half empty. The question is tricky because it involves not just the amount of oil potentially available beneath the earth's surface, but the difficulties, dangers and the expense of getting it out.

Paul Roberts is author of a new book: The End of Oil: On the Edge of a Perilous New World. He says that most of the easily obtainable oil, the cheap oil, has already been discovered and that it will become more and more difficult to meet world demand.

"That cheap oil is not gone completely by any means, but it is getting harder to find," he said. "You are seeing signs of it all over the place with companies like Shell Oil having to restate their reserves. Basically, they are not discovering oil as fast as they need to."

Mr. Roberts says that a peak in worldwide oil production could come within the next few decades. Making matters worse, demand for energy is increasing, driven by emerging nations like China and India. Paul Roberts says this will make the world ever more dependent on politically unstable nations that have plenty of oil.

"All of these countries have pretty severe political problems and any one of them could, at any time, erupt in some sort of civil chaos that could make production and exporting tough," he added. "We have seen that repeatedly. We saw it in Venezuela a year-and-a-half ago and we are seeing it right now in Nigeria. All it takes is for one of these countries to go off-line in any significant way and we would be in real trouble. If we think $ 40 a barrel is expensive now, try $ 80 to $ 100."

Mr. Roberts says the only way to avoid possible catastrophe is to begin to work toward a new energy future that would reduce the demand for oil. While many industry analysts agree that oil is a finite resource that could be subject to political dislocations, not everyone thinks the world is close to running out.

Dallas-based H. Sterling Burnett, a senior fellow at the private National Center for Policy Analysis, says there is still plenty of oil.

"Unless politics intervenes, the age of oil is just beginning," he said. "Currently, we have in reserves 3 trillion barrels of oil. If we did not discover one more drop, if we did not come up with new technology to extract more from the reserves we know of, we would still have enough oil for the next 56 years at the current rate of consumption with a 1.4 percent annual growth rate."

Mr. Burnett goes further, saying that new technologies could make it possible to extract oil from sites that were previously considered too challenging or expensive.

"The estimate is that we have about 14 trillion barrels of oil in shale oil and tar sands," he added. "Now, that is enough to fuel us for the next 500 years."

Of course, the only way for it to be cost-effective to recover such oil would be if the cost of crude went even higher. That would also make many alternative energy technologies more attractive to investors and consumers.

Mr. Burnett says the market will sort these things out, but author Paul Roberts suggests the market may need some help. He recommends government backing of alternative energy research. He says the government role should be to fund research and then let the market determine which technology offers the best alternative to oil.

"What has made oil such a great and powerful part of our energy economy is what we call its power density. You pack a lot of energy in a relatively small volume of fluid," he explained. "Finding something that does that cleanly, that replaces oil and gives the same bang for the energy buck, in a way that does not affect climate and does not require us to go over to the Middle East, that is a technological challenge that has not been met yet."

Mr. Roberts and Mr. Burnett agree that conservation could help keep down demand for oil and that the energy future may consist of a number of new technologies, perhaps working in tandem with a system in which petroleum is still used, but at much reduced levels. Already there are promising experimental programs utilizing not only the wind and the sun, but such things as used vegetable oil from restaurants and animal manure from large farms to produce fuel. Such projects offer the possibility of producing energy for the future that would also greatly reduce pollution and the carbon gases that many scientists believe contribute to global warming.
 
"Unless politics intervenes, the age of oil is just beginning," he said. "Currently, we have in reserves 3 trillion barrels of oil. If we did not discover one more drop, if we did not come up with new technology to extract more from the reserves we know of, we would still have enough oil for the next 56 years at the current rate of consumption with a 1.4 percent annual growth rate."

This is the way of looking at things that the peak oil argument takes issue with.

In the above example the guy looks at the oil that is being consumed at the moment, applies a reasonable growth rate, and works out how many years in the future the (allegedly) known reserves will last for.

What this analysis misses is that there is a difference between oil in the ground and oil in a barrel, and there are constraints on how much can be brought out of the ground to do with geology, the pace of technological advancement etc. There may well be sufficient oil in the ground to last for 56 years, but there isn't a hope in hell of getting it out of the ground fast enough to meet demand growing at 1.4% a year for the next 56 years.
 
I hate to drop in on something this complex, but I have to say there do seem to be some major misconceptions about oil reserves. Oil will NOT as the thread indicates, and Garbarsardar would have you believe, run out in 40-60 years. Period. What WILL run out is the proven reserves of financially recovrable oil. The amount of available oil is many times what can be recovered for a profit.

A big part of this is the Persian Gulf reserves. The oil is very close to the surface, as oil goes, mosly in sand rather than rock, and easy to get to and close to shipping points. Easy is a relative term here. It is as compared to Alaskan or Siberian oil or California offshore oil. One difficulty is climatic while the other is political. What the Saudis will do when their market dominance starts to slip in a generation or two is another thread. Suffice to say that there are vast amounts of polutants waiting to be brought to the surface. Our grandchildren may still be having this same conversation.

J
 
onejayhawk said:
I hate to drop in on something this complex, but I have to say there do seem to be some major misconceptions about oil reserves. Oil will NOT as the thread indicates, and Garbarsardar would have you believe, run out in 40-60 years. Period. What WILL run out is the proven reserves of financially recovrable oil. The amount of available oil is many times what can be recovered for a profit.

A big part of this is the Persian Gulf reserves. The oil is very close to the surface, as oil goes, mosly in sand rather than rock, and easy to get to and close to shipping points. Easy is a relative term here. It is as compared to Alaskan or Siberian oil or California offshore oil. One difficulty is climatic while the other is political. What the Saudis will do when their market dominance starts to slip in a generation or two is another thread. Suffice to say that there are vast amounts of polutants waiting to be brought to the surface. Our grandchildren may still be having this same conversation.

J

Evidence for this please. What I've read is completely at odds with this (see link in my sig).
 
I think we'd end up with a lot of big holes in the ground. :)
Hmm.. we could turn the middle east into a big garbage dump. :D
 
largest proven reserves are in Saudi Arabia, second largest is the tar sands of Canada.
my source is the print in the recent Nat'l Geographic ("The end of Cheap Oil?")

the easy part of the problem is finding an alternative fuel for transport engines. the hard part is undoing the intertwined dependance on plastic and other petrolium based products that modern society has built itself upon.
 
Oil will NOT as the thread indicates, and Garbarsardar would have you believe, run out in 40-60 years.
Could you please read my post again?All of it.And let's leave it there.

the easy part of the problem is finding an alternative fuel for transport engines
Probably. But retrofiting the whole industry to the purpose of making this alternative usefull, will require even more energy(=oil)


and take a look here:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm and here : http://www.petroleumnews.com/pnads/30318660.shtml
 
Chieftess said:
Guns don't use oil... atleast I don't think they do. Tanks won't run without oil though.


:spear:

But what about the transports for the men, and the vechiles they need to get to the battle field?
 
Looking through the thread, I found a claim I must disagree with: that wind is not a viable alternative due mainly to unreliability. That is simply false. It depends on where you put the wind generator. In some spots in North Dakota, for instance, I think I have read somewhere that there is the potential to produce most of the electricity that the US uses.

The problem is not the lack of a solution, just an unwillingness to use it.
 
Laughing Gull said:
largest proven reserves are in Saudi Arabia, second largest is the tar sands of Canada.


The problem is that it is at least 10 times as expensive to extract the oil from the tar sands. Thus if oil drops below a certain price, production plummets in the tar sands, as it costs more to produce than to sell. If the price goes above 20 dollars a barrel significantly, then it is a viable alternative. (from a purely monetary point of view. That doesn't include the massive amount of extra greenhouse gases the process releases, or the fact that they essentially inject massive amount of fresh water into the earth, which can never be recovered, in order to get the oil
[/QUOTE]
 
CIVPhilzilla said:
But what about the transports for the men, and the vechiles they need to get to the battle field?
They can row themselves there. :D
 
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