Time to get rid of the Monarchy?

Should the UK get rid of the Monarchy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 42.3%
  • No

    Votes: 26 33.3%
  • Radioactive monkeys should rule all countries

    Votes: 19 24.4%

  • Total voters
    78
Minorities in most of our republics are buried in the mass of popular opinion.

Well, the mass of popular opinion also enforces its will upon minorities in constitutional monarchies, see Brexit which has been rejected in Scotland and Northern Ireland. That's more a matter related to the functioning of democracies than the nature of the state.

As a matter of fact, I believe the need that everyone feels represented in a democracy is as important as electing the head of government, because a democracy is not supposed to be the dictatorship of the majority. That's precisely the problem with Erdogan who severely limited free speech and freedom of press, and I don't even talk about Putin massively rigging elections.

Yet despite fundamental rights being granted and unquestioned in the most established democracies, the feeling of not being represented is growing nevertheless. It fuels both abstention (people considering that voting is pointless) and populism (rebellion against an established elite which is considered as not representing the people's interests). I don't see any difference between constitutional monarchies and republics in this regard.
 
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If the monarch's the face and embodiment of the country, then what does the monarch embody?
She never complained about a Bloody Sunday in Ireland, about the rule of terror in British Africa, the displacement of the Chagossians to make way for the US military, the wholesale destruction of the British economy by Thatcherism that resulted in the country becoming one huge money-laundering scheme. She respectfully held her peace during the Windrush scandal. She sheltered her pædophile son, except for a few honours removed. She never complained when the police criminally mishandled a football match to the point that 96 people were trampled to death in a stadium.

She did, however, ‘uncharacteristically’ object to a Scottish independence referendum. But right away the following year, she didn't object to a demented Brexit project that was specifically predicated on two things: one was racism, intimately linked the glorification of an imperialist scheme that saw the UK become a criminal enterprise dedicated to piracy and forcing foreign countries to buy drugs at gunpoint; the other was a bunch-of-hogwash statistics that predicted that the UK would do better economically out of it (spoiler alert: it didn't).

I sometimes like to say that a country's football scheme echoes their sociopolitical structure. In England the clubs are money-laundering schemes for foreign autocrats who want to sportswash their image and the Premier League and FA cheerfully help them. The same as with the country's sold-up economy, opened up for pillage. The other leagues are clearly inferior in quality, it saddens me to say.

And all the above is just in the Home Nations™ and formal empire. What she's presided over in other realms includes abuses against indigenous populations in Canada and Australia, ongoing at the moment of writing.

And there was that thing about toppling an elected Australian government.

By the way, what's this about a constitutional monarchy? That's where you get in e.g. Spain, where, for all its faults, at least the monarchy is explicit as a matter of statutory law. In the UK there is no constitution and the presumption is that the monarch's power is absolute unless explicitly denied, and even then there is a royal prerogative which the executive can use as an excuse to bypass parliamentary debate and oversight.

Now you have to think how she got there.

I live in a country wracked by eighty years of corporatism explicitly modelled upon the then-contemporary Mussolini's Great Italian model: reduce the actual elected representatives of the people to a mere rubber-stamp for what corporatised interests decide in an instance of capitalism corrupted to the utmost degree of regulatory capture at all levels.
What's the ultimate corporation if not a monarch who says ‘it's my right because I'm me, everything happens if I allow it’? Because the monarch does object whenever the personal income or other convenience of the crowned head is affected, which anyone who's read Rousseau will tell you clearly separates the population into people who make rules and other people who have to follow them?
The new King has spent decades corresponding with politicians and telling them what he thought ought to be done, neutrality be damned. He did spend his time visiting foreign autocrats who wanted to purchase arms with which to strengthen their grip on their victim populations and did get personal donations to his charities which help whitewash his public image. Want to help the people? Don't donate, just undo the regressive taxation scheme that transfers wealth from poor to rich.
Monarchs are the ultimate political fixers and operators. Their fee is the prestige and not having to pay the political costs of (most) failings. As well as having a few hundred million quid in assets personally, and a lot of exemptions from laws not limited to taxes.
As I already said, the royal prerogative has been used to legislate without parliamentary oversight.

And what's the sociological value of having a structure that tells you that some people have a right to rule that derives from a deity that large numbers of people don't believe in or believe in but don't believe gives that rule? That's an outright autocracy if I ever saw one.
Which is, of course, realised in a twisted electoral system that sees a minority of the vote get a parliamentary majority and thus results in the disastrous condition of the country.

Symbolically Queen Elizabeth has been a TIto: everybody who can has been leaving the Commonwealth even within her lifetime and only the personal prestige of the late queen kept the monarchy as a façade for a disintegrating empire that has been impoverishing and alienating a population. From the raj to food banks.
The personal affection which a lot of people felt for her papered over the cracks, but the country's been experiencing centrifugal tendencies that nobody's dared speak about… for now.

I don't see it likely that things will devolve into armed confrontation as in Yugoslavia. But you can have a social collapse and disintegration. Probably not a Venezuela, because people with money didn't and still don't give a crap about Venezuela, but things can still happen. But it can be tough. Brexiteer England is already going the way that many nationalist dictators have gone, from irreverent to irrelevant, from outrageous to just outdated.

Of course, you can have utterly corrupt systems without formal monarchies (there's so many variations to point out, but I want to go play civ); that's just proof that ending monarchy is necessary but not sufficient.

As Kenan Malik says, we can respect popular affection for the queen and still question the idea of royalty.
 
If republic gives birth of utterly moronic leaders like Yoon of S.Korea... I would rather have 100 years of Charles III then 5 years of Yoon.
 
If your monarchs have more than ceremonial powers, then guillotine should go clack clack. If they're just ceremonial figureheads, then I'm confused as to why people are attributing political outcomes to them as if they matter.
 
One thing is for sure... I think many UK politicians want Monarchy to stay. Correct me if I am wrong but how popular is abolishing Monarchy is to UK politicians?
 
If republic gives birth of utterly moronic leaders like Yoon of S.Korea... I would rather have 100 years of Charles III then 5 years of Yoon.
A full 100% of Charles' Prime Ministers are Liz Truss.
 
A full 100% of Charles' Prime Ministers are Liz Truss.
At least UK have two leaders... Korea only have Yoon and we had to dread whenever he goes foreign country for diplomacy...

At least UK have Liz before and Charles now for diplomacy. Korea only have alcoholic Yoon for diplomacy.
 
At least UK have two leaders... Korea only have Yoon and we had to dread whenever he goes foreign country for diplomacy...

At least UK have Liz before and Charles now for diplomacy. Korea only have alcoholic Yoon for diplomacy.
Having Truss is a good thing?
 
Doesn't the monarch in the UK have to give their consent for Parliament to convene?
In Australia the Commonwealth parliament and every state and territory parliament except the ACT is officially started and ended by a declaration of the monarch's viceroy, though it's so ceremonial and automatic that that particular function doesn't generally matter tob anyone or attract attention.

The exception, of course, is the time they did it to sack a govt and install the opposition and call a new election.
 
I, as an American, found it interesting to see our flag flown half-mast in honor of the death of a monarch whose crown's suzerainty spawned it in the first place.
You guys had already landed forces in France in order to aid Britain in a war, it cannot get weirder than that.
 
At least UK have two leaders... Korea only have Yoon and we had to dread whenever he goes foreign country for diplomacy...

At least UK have Liz before and Charles now for diplomacy. Korea only have alcoholic Yoon for diplomacy.
The equivalent of Truss is Han Duck-soo, the South Korean prime minister.
 
In Australia the Commonwealth parliament and every state and territory parliament except the ACT is officially started and ended by a declaration of the monarch's viceroy, though it's so ceremonial and automatic that that particular function doesn't generally matter tob anyone or attract attention.

The exception, of course, is the time they did it to sack a govt and install the opposition and call a new election.
There is a world of difference between an office being ceremonial and it having an immense amount of power that it rarely chooses to exercise.
 
Any chance that HM Charles III will at least come close to trying to force changes in any government's legislating? (due to personal strongly held views about the outcome etc)

I dearly hope that he will try to somehow counter or soften the new anti-environmenralist government.

i doubt that Charlieboy reads this forum.

Boy, if Civ developers read it, then the sky is the limit!

On average, Europe's monarchies are better governed than its republics.

And not by a small margin.

Most of the causality here is probably negative: they remain monarchies because they've been governed well enough that there hasn't been the impetus for a republican revolution.

For those of us living in constitutional monarchies right now, It's not a choice between monarchy and republicanism as ideals.

It's a choice between the monarchy we now have, and the republic we'd get from our current political culture.

Yes, but it is a result of political stability.

With the exception of Spain, all of the current European monarchies still exist only because these countries remained relativley stable in the past 300 years or more.
Being stable and being governed better can go hand in hand, one feeding the other and vice versa.
The survival of their monarchies is simply a result and a mark of stability.
It's not like these nations uniquely liked monarchs more than others.

And the exception of Spain helps demonstrate it - the only recently-restored monarchy in Europe (aka the leasy stable of them) is indeed the only of them that is certainly not governed well.
 
There is a world of difference between an office being ceremonial and it having an immense amount of power that it rarely chooses to exercise.
Indeed. Just noting that the particular function of opening and closing parliament either side of an election isn't really part of the reserve powers that are the problem.

No cause Korean Prime Minister is basically more powerful vice President. Korean democracy is like US democracy
In which case there's not really an equivalent to either the monarch or the prime minister and your beef is with presidentialism.
 
In which case there's not really an equivalent to either the monarch or the prime minister and your beef is with presidentialism.
Do not people elect their PM? I know in NZ we elect our own PM through election and current PM jacinda ardern is equivalent to Yoon and Biden in terms of political power.
 
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