TMcC01 - Narcissistic Nehru (C3C, AWM)

I'm not as concerned about Riders as is Slinger. Primarily because we have a one-tile choke opportunity against China. We'll need to use an army to hold it, but once it belongs to us, China has only one point to attack. The Riders advantage versus regular knights is useless for amphibious assault.

Now if Slingers concern is a more general "Anyone who gets knights" ...

Oh, I think the Chinese horses are on our continent. No horses = No Riders.
 
Actually, I've had it for some time now, I just haven't been able to play until now. I'm on turn 4 right now and things are going ok, but we've been playing defense most of the time. Suffered some losses and setbacks, but they've been sustainable. If you'll give me an hour or so, I'll post the full set of turns.

Edit: Btw, the Chinese DO have horses in their core.
 
Originally posted by T_McC
Oh, I think the Chinese horses are on our continent. No horses = No Riders.
Click to expand...
You're right in that once we GET thier horses there will be no Riders. Getting them is a different matter and will require that go after China before Biz. Which isn't bad since it is a defensible peninsula. We may have to postpone the Biz offensive for going after China. At least the horse city.
 
I was looking at the save and china is trailing in tech. That may change of course, but they were missing Feudalism and Monotheism (only up republic from us)

I really wish we could get our armies out pillaging and slow down the AI production. I guess it is pointless to be pillaging if it means losing your cities, but without that the AI will continue its rapid production.
 
Sorry, RL intervened (exams), I haven't finished the turns, but I'll just post this save from turn 5 (900 A.D.). Sorry, but I don't have any notes (got eaten up by Notepad). The Save
 
You should probably patch before you play. I'm not sure if you can load a newer version with an older one, but we are using 1.15 anyway (less corruption and more effective FP).
 
Originally posted by handy900

O fearless leader, which save do you prefer that I play. I can't grab it until I get home from work.
Click to expand...

You should play from the save Yom just posted (his 5 turns). And, I'll leave it up to you whether you wish to play 10 or 15, since last time you played less turns to get us on even numbers. Either 10 or 15 is fine, I guess it will depend on how things are going, and whether you feel hot.

We are playing the game on v1.15. I think in this case it is important to be on the same version, as the FP definition changed between 1.12 and 1.15.
 
For some reason I can't download the 1.15 patch. I got 1.13, but 1.15 is not happening. All that happens is I keep having to watch a pepsi commercial about a dog eating a sandwich over & over, but no download. :( Seems like it is trying to send me to "ugo.com" or something llike that. Can't get it to link to the download from the home page or the forum page.

Anyway, I it's almosy 9pm and I've been putting in long hours at work all week. In the interest of not slowing the game down anymore, please just skip over me :( . I'll try to get patched by the weekend and get back into the rotation. Sorry for the skip but I'm dead tired and after 30 minutes of patch frustration I just want to hit the rack. 5am is going to be here too soon I fear.

Sorry for the inability to patch, but best of luck on the game.

:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
 
Alrighty,

That puts Greebley in the driver's seat. After Greebley completes his turns, we'll discuss whether Handy is next, or I am.

The same offer of 10 or 15 turns is open to Greebley. Should he so desire, he can play the last 5 of Yom's in addition to his own 10. Or he can just play 10. Up to him.
 
Preturn: Look over situation. Nothing I really want to change. I do attack with the healthy army to get rid of an MDI. It looks very dicey though.

IBT: Much movement by the enemies. 2 MDI attack some spear. One wins, one loses.

910 AD:
Kill a chinese sword, our army does poorly vs an MDI and loses 1/2 its HP, kill an Aztec archer, and a Mayan javalin.

Survey of enemies in or next to our lands:
American: 2 Crusader, 2 MDI, 1 Archer, 1 Spear
Egyptian: 5 MDI
Chinese: 4 Sword and 1 Spear.
Mayan: 6 Jav, 1 MDI, 1 Sword
Byzantine: 1 Horse, 2 Archer
Aztec: 3 archer, 1 Spear
Enemies: 31
Us: 29 Spear, 16 Sword, 1 Horse, 12 Cat

IBT: Enemies advance. One square pillaged near Greebley Heights

920 AD:
American: 2 Crusader, 3 MDI (+1), 1 Archer, 1 Spear.
Egyptian: 6 MDI (+1), 1 Archer (+1)
China: 2 Sword (-2), 1 Spear
Mayan: 4 Jav (-2), 2 MDI(+1), 0 Sword (-1)
Byzantine: 0 Horse (-1), 0 Archer (-2)
Aztec: 2 Archer (-1), 1 Spear
Enemies: 26
Us: 29 Spear, 16 Sword, 1 Horse, 14 Cat (+2)

IBT: Bad Round. We lose a spear and sword on a mountain to MDI and a sword across a river without a win.
One square Pillaged.

930 AD:
Lose 2 sword and one horse on attack (and this is not vs healthy units.- the horse lost to a 1 hp sword).

An American Knight is spotted 2 away.

Build Ganges.

American: 2 Crusader, 0 MDI (-3), 1 Archer, 1 Spear
Egyptian: 4 MDI (-2), 1 Archer
China: 0 Sword (-2), 0 Spear (-1)
Mayan: 5 Jav (+1), 1 MDI (-1), 2 Sword(+2)
Aztec: 1 Archer (-1), 1 Spear
Enemies: 19
Us: 28 Spear (-1), 13 Sword (-3), 0 Horse(-1), 14 Cat

IBT: A Egyptian MDI kills a spear, and then 2 MDI and an archer cannot kill a single sword.

940 AD: A rough turn. A unit is dropped next to Sugar Plantation and I have a tough time figuring out how to defend it.

Settle Pune (another poor spot) to build an army.

American: 2 Crusader, 1 Knight (+1), 0 Acher (-1), 1 Spear
Egyptian: 3 MDI (-1), 0 Archer (-1)
Mayan: 4 Jav (-1), 2 MDI(+1), 2 Sword
Byzantine: 1 Horse (+1)
Aztec: 1 Archer, 1 Spear
Enemies: 18
Us: 29 Spear(+1), 14 Sword(+1), 14 Cat and (4) +1 ARMY!

IBT: Hold off Crusader

950 AD:
America: 1 Crusader (-1), 1MDI (+1), 1 Knight, 1 Spear
Egyptian: 3 MDI: 1 Spear(+1) (settler)
Mayan: 5 Jav (+1), 1 MDI (-1), 2 Sword
Byzantine: 1 Horse
Aztec: 2 Archer (+1), 1 Spear
Enemies: 20
Us: 29 Spear, 17 Sword (+3), 14 Cat

IBT:
We get Feudalism! Yay!
3 Spear upgraded

960 AD: We need Monarchy even if support is higher. Pulling the plug.

IBT: Knight kills a spear


970 AD: Anarchy
Forgot stats this turn

IBT:

980 AD: Become a Monarchy. Without changing the sliders we lose 10 gold and go from 35 to 28 turns to engineering

Elite sword gets another leader.

(since last stats)
America: 1 Crusader, 0 MDI (-1), 2 Knights (+1), 0 Spear (-1)
Egypt: 7 MDI (+4), 0 Spear (-1)
Mayan: 3 Jav (-2), 2 MDI (+1), 1 Sword (-1)
Byzantine: 0 Horse (-1)
Aztec: 1 Archer (-1), 0 Spear (-1)
Chinese: 1 Sword (+1)
Enemies: 18
Us: 25 Spear (-4), 17 Sword, 3 Pike (+3), 14 Cat +1 LEADER!

Switch 4 towns to settlers for next army (I am hoping I am not too optimistic. It is also "lesser" towns that are switched.

IBT: Crusader loses vs spear

990 AD:
Slow research a bit again to get Pikes. Hopefully not for long...

America: 0 Crusader (-1), 2 Knights
Egypt: 7 MDI, 1 Archer (+1)
Mayan: 5 Jav (+2), 2 MDI, 1 Sword
Byzantine: 1 Horse(+1)
Aztec: 2 Archer (+1)
Chinese: 0 Sword (-1)
Enemies: 21
Us: 25 Spear, 17 Sword, 4 Pike(+1), 14 Cat

IBT: Knight and MDI lose vs Spear. JSBach built by America/Atlanta

1000 AD:
Destroy the City of Chengdu with my army

America: 1 Knight (-1)
Egypt: 4 MDI (-3), 2 Archer (+1)
Mayan: 6 Jav (+1), 1 MDI (-1), 1 Sword
Byzantium: 2 Horses (+1)
Aztec: 3 Archer (+1)
Enemies: 20
Us: 25 Spear, 17 Sword, 4 Pike(+1), 14 Cat

IBT: Lose a spear due to MDI attack in Gas

1010 AD:
Raise the annoying town of buffalo (that kept sending archers. First settler is nearly there.

America: 2 Knights (+1)
Egypt: 3 MDI (-1), 2 Archer
Mayan: 5 Jav (-1), 4 MDI (+3)
Byzanium: 0 Horse (-2),1 Pike (+1)
Aztec: 2 Archer (-1)
Enemies: 19
Us: 23 Spear(-2), 17 Sword, 5 Pike(+1), 14 Cat, 2 MDI

1020 AD:
America: 2 Knights
Egypt: 2 MDI (-1), 2 Archer
Mayan: 4 Jav (-1), 3 MDI (-1)
Aztec: 4 Archer (+2), 1 Spear(+1)

IBT: Lose our Wines!

1030 AD:
Build Buffalo Wings where Buffalo used to be.
Getting tired no counts

1040 AD:
Attack Equina and win! W also claim 6 catapults (non-foreign)

1050 AD:
Holding the lines mostly. Note that Byzantine have been attacking in force after a long haitus. I think they may have been at war with the Aztecs.

Final Numbers:
America: 2 Knights, 1 Crusader, 1 MDI, 1 Archer, 2 Spear
Egypt: 1 MDI, 5 Archer, 1 Pike
Mayan: 3 Jav, 4 MDI
Byzantine: 1 Horse, 4 Archers
Aztecs: 3 Archers, 2 Spears
China: 3 MDI, 1 Spear
Enemies: 35!
Us: 23 Spear, 17 Sword, 1 Horse, 5 Pike, 20 Catapults, 4 Armies, 4 MDI, 13 workers.
We have 18 towns, 2 settlers and a leader so we should be able to get our fifth army in just a few turns.

Notes:

I think wars caused a lull in the troops. I took advantage of this to push up our city count. Some of the cities are a bit silly in terms of placment.

The spear army mostly pillaged America

There are a MDI and Sword near the Mayan town of Kamanaljuyu, and another sword near Ganges. The I was thinking of using these to take out Kamanaljuyu and replacing it with a settler that is just completing in T-ville.

I was also thinking of a town between Deerburg and Equina. The settler is under the army.

Finally, there is a settler in the Chinese/Byzantine front. I destroyed a chinese city, but they rebuilt it before I could and also sent forces so I couldn't actually take it out. Once the present wave of units subsides, there may be an opportunity to settle.

My main goal was to reach 20 units and 5 armies.

Unit cost is still very high at 48 gold - mostly becaus we are in Monarchy. I started irrigation to allow cities to grow.

We need more workers! One thing to do is to keep the cities I "squeezed in" on workers much of the time. That way they stay small and so don't block our other towns.

[Edit: It looks like Pune is making the wrong thing on my map and may need adjustment. In fact I was tired at the end so the builds might be sub-optimal ]

Our current lands:

TMcC01_AD1050.JPG


The Save
 
I just remembered something. We should probably raise Shantung (with its iron) soon to prevent the chinese from bringing any more swords or riders.

Anyway, good set of turns. I think I wasn't agressive enough on mine.
 
Very close to having another army soon for doing some more damage! It would be great to get one down on China and raze/ replace there. Or the team may prefer to go after Byz and her lands. I foresee a palcae jump around Nicaea someday when we start to go after them. Would it be advisable to treat Egypt/America like we did Otto/Inca in Sherman and just pillage them silly. Meanwhile, treat Byz/China like Aztec/America and annex thier lands. Defense on Egypt/Americas high city count/lowproduction and offense on Byz/China lower city count/weaker units with China going down first and relagating them to the island.
 
I see two ways of using our armies. One would be to use several to start taking out nearby cities to grow immediately. The problem with this strategy is that it does not slow down the further away opponents at all.

The other is to send armies out to pillage. This does not gain anything immediately, but helps quite a bit in the long term due to reduced pressure from units.

Once we get 5 armies, we might be able to try the following:

Have two armies pillaging in enemy territory. We really need to repillage the Mayan iron for example as they are sending MDI against us. The Byzantines are also unpillaged and could become nastier. The other army would be the spear army that has hurt America and was heading back into Egypt to do damage there.

For the remaining 3 armies, one is by itself on one side of the empire and is used for defense. For the other side we have 2 armies hopefully supported by units whose purpose is to take out enemy cities and to allow us to grow. Two armies seems sufficient to do this while it is hard with one.

The other question is what to make the 5th army. I am thinking that an MDI army would be best and sending out a sword army to do the mayan pillaging. It could also attack weaker units from time to time too. The other option would be a pike army that has the advantage of being able to pillage for longer. However, I think the advantage of an MDI army as one of the two armies on offsense is a better option as the sword army is unlikely to be attacked until maybe cavalry while the use of MDI is an immediate advantage.
 
I agree with Greebley's reasoning, an MDI army would be very powerful. If we haven't used the leader yet, perhaps we should build the pentagon as we probably will get a leader before we settle 4 more turns. Also, if we happen to get another leader before 4 turns are settled (after the existing one is used) the Military Academy may be in our best interest. Aside from building armies, which is useless right now, it increases the attack bonus for armies from +1/6 of the entire armies attack strength ( floor(16/6 =2) so +2 for a post-pentagon MDI army or floor(12/6) = 2 for pre-pentagon) to +1/4 (floor 16/4 = 4 or 12/4 = 3 for pre-pentagon). Basically, with the Pentagon and Military Academy we'll have 8 attack 2 move 16-20 hp MONSTERS as armies. We'll be able to cut through pikemen and even musketmen like butter.
 
I think we already have the pentagon. I also think we should settle the last 2 towns within the next 5 turns and get our first army soon.

Finally, I think the Mil Academy requires Mil Trad. which we are far from. On my turns we had no small wonders we could build.
 
To reply to a handful of topics:

Yes, we have already built the Pentagon.

The resting leader could be used for a marketplace or aqueduct somewhere rather than sitting around waiting for enough cities to be founded.

I like to idea of two armies pillaging. The only issue I have Greebley's strategy is that it currently appears we need two armies to defend our Western border. Until we can reduce that to one, we either can't pillage, or can't go on the offensive. I think it will be possible to rectify that situation in the next ten turns, as soon as we finish offensive operations on the Peninsula.

I vote play defense in the west against the Americans and Egypt, and go on the offensive against Byz. We probably don't need an army to defend against the troops the iron-less Byz can produce, so the defensive army on that front might be able to occupy the one-tile choke we share with the Chinese. That would probably be an ideal-case scenario.

It is extremely unlikely our Palace is jumping east. Let's review this one more time: In C3C, v1.15, rank corruption is calculated from the Palace alone. Distance corruption is calculated from the closer of the Palace or FP. If the Palace goes east, so do the productive city sites. I think we need to keep the productive sites on the defensive front, since (generally) offensive units are easier to move than defensive units. This was why I was skeptical when Slinger first proposed building our FP in Yom's Folly. I wanted the FP in the east, in anticipation of grabbing Byz lands. It has turned out to be better for us to build the FP in Yom's, since that was the land we could grab.

I have looked at the save, and I will play the next set of turns. Handy can jump in after me, over the weekend.
 
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